Positive Reinforcement Vs. Punishment

[theswarm]

I've seen lots of kids who you KNOW are there because their parents put them there not because they want to be there.

 

The problem therein lies in the fact that they would rather be doing a million other things, so you want to captivate their interest...how?

 

Often single them out for examples can help (as in this is how you do this technique)

 

the sit out of the class thing could be beneficial but could also be bad - getting them to stand out in sumo stance can be effective at times, but when the kids aren't doing sumo stance properly it doesn't help much. Much of likeness when the kids are the non disciplined and the adults are the only ones doing the squat kicks properly.

 

i'm a firm believer in positive reinforcement - but a little negative reinforcement can help toughen you up a bit (my legs are all the more tough from squat kicks etc)

[Guest]

With students who are just beginning training, I tend to give more positive reinforcement than negative criticism. When they advance to a higher rank, I like to give some positive things to show them that I notice when they are improving on something in addition to pointing out something that is lacking in an area so they can work on that as well. A fun activity to do is line them in in sperate lines and have races. The first line to get completly done do not have to do push ups and the others do. It's great motivation to get them moving.

[Mamutti]

When I first starting training in the martial arts, I loved the positive reinforcement. As I continued to train, I thrived more on the challenges and wanting people to be honest and critical with me about both my technique and my attitude. I didn't want people to ever let me slide and generally they don't. However, this past week, I had a heated discussion with my instructor, I lost my cool, and used what I consider to be a disrespectful tone, even though my comment was valid. I apologized all afternoon, and he accepted. When I got home and thought about it, I really wished he would have had me do a few hundred pushups or some thing. It would have made me feel better, and I deserved it. In today's world, sometimes we try to avoid consequence of our actions. I see many parents who don't want their children to pay any price for their behavior; they protect them. This does not build character or strong people. Of course all punishment should fit the so called crime. As many people have said, balance is important.. be positive when there is reason, be critical when it is necessary.. kids need both, not just fluff. We use the praise correct praise, and sometimes I just feel it is too sugar coated. In the end, just be honest and respond out of concern, not anger.

[gdragon]

Great points, Mamutti. Some parents bring their kids to MA classes for discipline, then object to discipline!

Anyway, on the way home I continued to cogitate and began to wonder how much good correction does him, and if we are indeed rewarding his bad behaviour by the attetnion. Might he be acting out in search of attention and receiving the reward (attetnion from instructors) that he wishes? The difficulty lies in the fact that he sets a poor example for brand new students, who see him moving at attention, punching off to the side,and just generally not trying. His seniors realize he is a poor student,and ignore him. Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

Kids do respond to praise. When I am faced with this situation, one thing I will try is to praise the person standing next to the distracted student. "John is standing perfectly still. Good job." If wiggly boy is after attention, he will shape up fast, thereby setting himself up to be praised, which I do right away.

 

Any time I single one kid out for a nice, low stance, the whole class gets shorter!

 

I sympathise with the apathy. For some of these kids, it seems nothing works.

[LordBucket]

Both methods work, but understand that which method you choose will have an affect on the sort of student you attract to your school. My experience has been that people who are genuinely self motivated, and really WANT to practice martial arts do not respond well to negative reinforcement.

 

Most of the McDojo's in my area, for instance, make extensive use of pushups as punishment for bad behavior. It is a nuisance and a distraction to everybody else in the class to do this.

 

Also especially bad is the taking of time to berate an individual student at the expense of the reset of the class. 90% of everyone is doing what they're supposed to, but the one idiot who shouldn't be there is goofing off, so everybody has to listen to ten seconds of yelling. I think the brain has a difficult time when it is doing exactly the correct thing, but it hears a rant about how 'you're not trying hard enough' even though the rant is directed at somebody else. It's also obnoxious to have to do something physically strenuous for twice as long, just because the person next to you is trying half as hard.

 

The best method that I have seen for dealing with people who don't listen, or don't put forth good effort is to absolutely and completely ignore them. After a few weeks they generally get the hint, and they leave. It is better this way.

 

Bucket Man.

 

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