Why karate is detrimental.

[Dablackbelt]

Ok. I am gonna put an end to this once and for all with the reasons for all of this!

 

1) You are right slow to fast section. I believe that all begginers should go slow at first and then to medium until they have mastered the basic moves.. Even if that means they have to miss a few gradings.

 

2) The hands on the hips section, you are made to put your hands onto your hips for several reasons:

 

i) This is used to get the technique right, if you are taught without doing this then your arm would be laying about next to your side and it would be a bit slow to punch with it.

 

ii) It looks good: imagine if you have a really good, stronge, solid stance, a great punch, you are looking directly forward and your arm is dropping down aimlessly at the floor. It would all look good apart from the arm.

 

3) Stances: Low, solid and long stances are used to work your muscles. If you start making really low and long stances from a white belt stage then your muscles will hurt at first because they are not used to the pain, but after a while of hard working your muscles will gradually start to get stronger and you will be able to stay in this position for longer. See what I mean? E.G In Karate there is a stance called Kebadachi/quebadachi (not sure how it is spelt) better known as horse riding stance and if you make it long and low then it will really hurt at first but after some time it will gradually become less painful. Its the same with your arms. Hold a punch for ages and it will hurt but do it on a regular basis and it will become easier and easier. Does that make sense?

 

4) Sparing: Ok. When people fight at Karate or any other 'MA' then they gradually get better at their blocks, punches, kicks and striking techniques this way they will be so used to fighting that they most likely won't even get hit!

 

Alternatively, since that is a bit of a stupid answer:

 

People who do martial arts will know whats it's like to hit. For instance, they train on bags, some on wooden boards, etc... Everyone has hit someone before, thats what I reckon anyway. Also everyone has been hurt before, you can't say that they won't know what it's like if they get hurt!

 

Oh and think about it, if you were in a fight and you hit someone you ain't gonna stop because your hand hurts, 2 reasons why:

 

i) Martial Artists are trained how to punch with their knuckles to increase alot of pain...

 

ii) They're in the middle of a bloomin' fight, they would get hit too easily.

 

And another thing: if you're in a fight you won't suddenly stop fighting because you're 'afraid' to hit them or that you've never hit someone before. That would be so stupid what would you rather do? Get beaten the crap outta yourself or don't attack cause you don't like to hit someone?

 

Anyway... I hope that sums most of it up And that this convinces you that it is not stupid or anything else negative about self defences.

 

Wow... I hate essays and I just wrote a short one myself...

 

 

 

 

 

DBB.

 

P.S Whats Detrimental mean?

 

P.P.S I just noticed that John G got quite similar stuff to me...

 

Great.. 1/2 hour of my life wasted...

 

P.P.P.S If you really don't like MA that much why did you join it?

[eyeball-san]

det ri men tal \ adj (ca 1656) : 1. obviously harmful : Damaging.

 

You wanted our opinions, so here's mine Freestyler.

 

I am not a sensei, or a danshi but I have had some experience over the years. I fail to see how a martial art, which strenghtens the mind, body and spirit can be described as detrimental.

 

Sure there are what you call mcdojos out there but anyone who does a little research can avoid those. Did you buy the first car you saw for sale? I didn't. Nor did I pick the first dojo in the phonebook. ( by the way A-1 Masters Martial Arts is the first here, and I am not implying they are not great instructors) Our dojo is not even in the phone book.

 

I do not agree with your out look on what you call "the basics." I agree more with Kirves. Starting out slowly on new material gives one the opportunity to memorize the technique wether it be ippon, kata, or whatever, while focusing on form simultaniously. When you have the technique memorized, speed up. The perfect form will follow.

 

You absolutely lost me when you began explaining your opinion of sparring and stances. The only time we have our hands on our hips is while we are streaching out at the beginning of class. I presume you were describing Kiba Dachi, aka horse stance. Often it is at the beginning and end of a kata, but so is a block.

 

In sparring ,as soon as you hear Hajime (begin) you better be moving and fighting or you are going to get scored on. There are no "solid" stances in sparring.

 

In closing, I guess I should say this. The best fight is the one which is won without ever throwing a punch. Martial Art is self defense training, that is true. I personnally hope to never have to use it as such in a real life situation. And just in case, I also know Glockjutsu.

Edited January 15, 2003 by eyeball-san

[Kirves]

O i) This is used to get the technique right, if you are taught without doing this then your arm would be laying about next to your side and it would be a bit slow to punch with it.

 

ii) It looks good: imagine if you have a really good, stronge, solid stance, a great punch, you are looking directly forward and your arm is dropping down aimlessly at the floor. It would all look good apart from the arm.

 

Hmmmmh.... I thought he meant that the hand should come up to a high guard position instead of down next to the hip. I may be mistaken though...

 

 

Does that make sense?

 

No, because you forgot that the stances also have their use in a fight, not just training.

P.S Whats Detrimental mean?

 

Harmful. If operation A is detrimental to operation B, it means doing A will make your B less good.

[Kfcharlie]

hey everyone,

 

just wanted to say that this is a pretty good discussion and to offer some of my views. First of all, there is a reason for doing everything that we do in martial arts, whether it be karate or, tkd or, gung-fu. if this is not true why would we spend the time training our bodies to do something that we will never use, and don't give me that muscle conditioning bull. muscle conditioning is just that, push-ups and the like. the simplest explanation that i can give you to why we do infact chamber is to think of holding someones arm and pulling them into you as you punch. now there are many others but they would be best demonstrated and talked about. other reasons could be to do grappeling moves, tuite, or to trap something. and i agree with you on the technique thing. only perfect practice makes perfect. if your instructor is not trained well enuff to tell that you are doing something wrong, whether you are moving fast or slow, he/she has no business being the only instructor on the floor. and who ever said that you can only practice at the school why not at home, after a couple months of dedicated training you should know what is supposed to be right or wrong. and stances. i use all of my stances all of the time, wheteher sparring or doing my form or self defense, especially self defense. different techniques work better with different stances. that is all there is too it and if you don't know how your stances work practice your forms some more. all of the secrets of our martial arts are hidden in the basics and forms that we practice everyday. sparring was not invented until the okinawins allowed funakoshi to teach the japanese "karate" or the watered-down version that many people teach today. it was meant for his students to have fun and to be able to compete with one another. think about it, did the okinawins like the japanese? hell no! they hated them, so why would they teach them all of their empty hand secrets. why not teach them just enuff to make them look stupid. sparring is not meant to be the way you would handle yourself in a self defense situation, it was meant for sport and fun. so you really think that they didn't have street fights back in the olden days? if you do then you are living in a fantasy world. the same things that we face todat have been going on for thousands and thousands of years albeit the guns of course. but anything that yu evr wanted to know about martial arts is in the forms. next time you do your form think about what you are doing. and don't think, "oh, this is a low block so i must be blocking a kick or a punch" becasue that to is bull. try to push the envelope think about where your hands are in the protection postion during your block. hmmm, boy doesn't that look like a fighting postion after you just parried a technique away from you? i will tell you now that blocks are not just blocks. next time you do your form, lets say pinan 1 your first move is to turn and do a low block, right? well is the low block position the actuall move or is it just a pose? did the or technique you were using occur between the ready stance and the block pose? i think so. sorry this is so long but there is no short way around it. i could go on for years about all of this. you just have to have an open mind and a good though process and years of experience to start to come to these conclusions and it doesn't hurt to ready Karate-Do my way of life by gichin funakoshi but make sure it is the one that was published in 1922 or around there and not the 1949 publication.

 

Jacob

[Kirves]

Yeah. For those grown in the McDojos, think gedan barai is used to block a kick? Well, try this one out and see if you still feel you have useless hands hanging around:

 

1. Have a partner grab your right wrist with his left hand.

 

2. Counter his grip by rotating your right hand counter-clockwise until you have the upper hand. Simultaneously start pulling your right hand to your hip (or if he's strong, bring your hip closer to his hand).

 

3. At the same time you are doing step 2, raise your left hand on your right shoulder. When his left arm (elbow) is straightening from your pull and the new angle (after rotating the hand), strike down to break or dislocate his elbow with your left forearm.

 

Now you have performed gedan barai. He is going down, with his elbow broken. Let's continue and finish him up with a reverse punch.

 

4. After striking his elbow with your left hand, don't pull your left hand back one inch, but immediately reach forward and grab his garments around his upper arm or shoulder, maybe even neck area. Wherever you get a good grip quickly. When you have secured a strong grip, release your right hand from his wrist and while pulling him towards you forcefully with your left hand ("chambering the left hand to the hip") reverse punch his neck with your right hand.

 

5. Job well done.

 

Now this is something you learn in the basic course. The most basic self defence application of gedan barai + gyaku tsuki (i.e. low block and reverse punch for those with different terminology). Don't get me started on other applications for it. Now tell me, where did you see the useless hands hanging around? I for one had my hands full!

[Kfcharlie]

Thats right! excellent job Kirves. part of martial rts is economy or conservation of motion, keeping this in mind there is a reason fro everything we do. we do not do something just to "condition our muscles."

[Freestyler]

Hmm, I'll write this dojang off as a McDojo!

 

The style of karate is Go Kan Ryu (GKR), after watching the sparring, especially by the head founder (Robert Sullivan), I was appalled and couldn't wait to get away from it.

[omnifinite]

Funny how real Karate contains the things the naysayers say their arts are better for having .

[Cactus_Gazz]

Sparring - this one is more dojo specific, but anyway. A lot of dojos do non contact sparring to 'eliminate the chance of injury'. GKR (Go Kan Ryu) is one example of such a style. They have a student base of over 35 000 members and they're increasingly exponentially. It sad to see that so many students believe they are getting taught real self defense, when they really have no idea what it's like to hit somoene, get hit, etc. These students are in for a shock if they ever have a fight on the street!

 

I've only sparred twice at gkr and both times i've been hit and injured.

 

i also think that when it comes to street fights most people can take a punch or two from some punk. sparring also teaches blocking, not just how to take a punch

[Jussi Häkkinen]

Hmm, I'll write this dojang off as a McDojo!

 

The style of karate is Go Kan Ryu (GKR), after watching the sparring, especially by the head founder (Robert Sullivan), I was appalled and couldn't wait to get away from it.

 

Go Kan Ryu is commonly known as a McDojo of a worst sort. Avoid.