Why karate is detrimental.

[Freestyler]

Hi guys,

 

just thought I'd post my opinion on karate's training methods and why I don't think it's effective for self defense. I'd like to hear your thoughts on my comments.

 

Think of a piece of string that represents your habits. Everytime you perform something, you wrap a piece of string around it. After doing this hundreds of time, it'll become quite strong & very hard to break! -- this analogy comes from 'The seven habits of highy effective people' by Stephen Covey.

 

The basics - when going through the basics I notice they seem to be done slow, medium paced and then fast! I think this is fine when you've developed your technique, but for beginners who are just starting out, they need to focus on getting the technique right first, before executing it as fast as possible. Hence, a lot of karate practioners have poor technique from repeatedly doing techniques poorly.

 

The placement of the hands at the hips - this creates a bad habit as well. A lot of people adopt this when sparring. After placing your hands on your hips thousands of times after performing a punch, what makes you think you're going to keep them up in a real fight ? Boxers have trouble keeping their hands up at first, only after being constantly told to keep their hands up & kicked in the face so they keep them up.

 

The stances - some of the stances can supposedly be adopted to provide a solid stance, so your opponent can't move you. Are you seriously going to adopt one of these in a fight ? If someone punches/kicks you in the head, it'd actually work better for them since you've got nowhere to move your head and lessen the impact of the strike.

 

Sparring - this one is more dojo specific, but anyway. A lot of dojos do non contact sparring to 'eliminate the chance of injury'. GKR (Go Kan Ryu) is one example of such a style. They have a student base of over 35 000 members and they're increasingly exponentially. It sad to see that so many students believe they are getting taught real self defense, when they really have no idea what it's like to hit somoene, get hit, etc. These students are in for a shock if they ever have a fight on the street!

[ramymensa]

I've noticed you've embarked in a series of anti-traditional karate posts and I can't explain why. You should have a reason for trying to put in a bad light all the guys who train in traditional styles. In order to do this one must have many years of training in these styles, must have taught many years and done some serious research. I would really like to know how many years have you trained in Shotkan, Wado ryu or other traditional styles. Afterwards we'll talk

 

I'm sorry for the post ... but really ... it sound disrespecful to imply the traditional karate is crap ... I've trained with some great teachers and if I was to sparr with a similar martial artist (same rank) trust me ... I wouldn't be a victim

 

Traditional styles are still extremely popular and if they weren't good they've been gone and forgotten ...

 

I appologise again and invite you all to be more tolerant ... This kind of discussions are cheap and don't look good when it comes to people who claim they are superior

[armed_lunatic]

"... This kind of discussions are cheap and don't look good when it comes to people who claim they are superior"

 

Now what's wrong with a little constructive criticism? "this kind of discussion" is what this website was all about in the first place. look at the adress box...."karateforums"...see?

[Freestyler]

Hi, ramymensa, I don't mean to try and put karate in bad light. It is just my opinion, remember ? I stated that at the top of the post. I don't want to get into a traditional vs non-traditional debate.

 

I'm interested in what you and others think...

[ramymensa]

Now what's wrong with a little constructive criticism? "this kind of discussion" is what this website was all about in the first place. look at the adress box...."karateforums"...see?

 

Unfortunatelly it's not a constructive criticism ... as long as we are just guessing and throw diagnosis. And regarding the title ... Karate as we all know or should know reffers to the styles originating in okinawa/japan (wado ryu, s-hi-to ryu, shotokan and so on). If we were to respect this, other martial arts would have to find themselves another forum But it's to the best way. I love interaction and knowing so many people from other styles. It's nice to find out so many things about them, but again I ask you PLS let's not act childish.

 

We are here to learn and to respect ...

 

If I was to put down my opinion ... I guess I'll be rude ... i could say in America there are many styles, some very new, never heard of in other parts of the world ... I don't know them ... they are not good. Right? Nope. Wrong. Some are great. I guess. And I respect them, Although I stick to my traditional Shotokan and wouldn't trade it with anything untraditional

 

Many guys started another style just to grant themselves a 125147574 dan and the privilege of calling themselves Masters, Shihans, Senseis and so on. It happened. In America you have Mc Dojos and other "cute" stuff. There are not so present in other parts ... The styles made up just to have some new organisation are bad, aren't they? Nope. Not entirelly. There are students who work hard to become proficient. They must be respected. They deserve it.

 

Traditional styles are being questioned because they don't offer a great range of techiques. Or so some think ... Well they DO. I can speak only for Shotokan and repeat, We have all. Grappling, some groundfight, kicks, blocks, throws, armlocks... You just have to stick to it enough to learn them. The learning process is kinda slow and gradual. One must spend some time to find out about all the nice stuff. It's a drawback, or a good thing for the perfectionists

 

A long post again ... Sorry...

 

I had to many things to say ...

 

I appologise AGAIN if I sound unapropiate or disrespectful. I got carried away.

 

Take care and train. And don't forget, WHERE EVER you go, go with ALL YOUR HEART. It's the most important thing.

[ramymensa]

I remembered ... DETRIMENTAL?

 

Freestyler ... I think the title is kinda weird if not ... more.

 

About techiques and other stuff ... I recommend visiting https://www.24fightingchickens.com

 

I appologise to the moderators. I don't imply there they've got a better site or a better forum, but there Freestyler is able to read many interesting informations ... otherwise I'd spend the years to come trying to point out many many things

[Freestyler]

ramymensa, McDojos are everywhere.. any art that is 'in' at the time will fall victim to this unfortunately.

 

I have great respect for any martial artists of course, regardless of their style, it takes dedication and commitment on their behalf; and we all want different things out of our study, which is why we don't all study the one style, or similar styles.

 

What do you think about what I posted in my original post ?

[karatekid1975]

Hey, all. Lets not get into a "cat fight" here. We are all intitled to our opinion. A little debate is good, but not as far as putting someone's art down or "art vs art" agruments. Let's keep this calm, fellas.

[ramymensa]

Peace then

 

I think your initial post (the first in the thread) was kinda onesided

 

That's why I bursted like this.

 

Your last post is more dear to my soul. We are all trying to acomplish different things in our MA training. I for example am crazy about perfectionism and katas and sparring and detail and so on. You must have your own goals and it's OK.

 

Ohh I've posted too many times in this thread ... Sorry

 

Freestyler ... guess I've got a date. Come to Romania. We'll talk more

[John G]

Freestyler,

 

Although I don’t practice Karate, I would like to address some of the issues you have raised, as ITF Taekwon-do (TKD) has many of the traits you described in you post. This comes about because ITF TKD borrowed heavily from Shotokan when it was first developed.

 

 

 

You wrote:

 

Think of a piece of string that represents your habits. Everytime you perform something, you wrap a piece of string around it. After doing this hundreds of time, it'll become quite strong & very hard to break! -- this analogy comes from 'The seven habits of highy effective people' by Stephen Covey.

 

----------

 

I totally agree, it’s like driving a vehicle, the first time everything is awkward and difficult but after a while, it becomes second nature and you act immediately to any situation without thinking about it.

 

The same goes for training, we drill over and over until what we do is second nature, and we become more focused on the task at hand instead of thinking about how to do it. (One day ill get there)

 

You Wrote:

 

The basics - when going through the basics I notice they seem to be done slow, medium paced and then fast! I think this is fine when you've developed your technique, but for beginners who are just starting out, they need to focus on getting the technique right first, before executing it as fast as possible. Hence, a lot of karate practioners have poor technique from repeatedly doing techniques poorly.

 

-----------

 

Again I agree, although I think all martial arts suffer from this problem and not just Karate practitioners. It’s far harder to train a technique slowly and correctly then build up the speed than it is to execute the technique quickly.

 

You soon find out that you have wasted your time developing lightning fast punches at the expense of technique when it comes to breaking boards. If the techniques not there you hurt your fist.

 

I myself use to mask poor technique with quick actions; it’s difficult for the instructor to see what you are doing when you are doing something fast.

 

After a while you learn it’s far easier to spend 3 months learning the technique correctly than 2 months doing it wrong then 4 months reprogramming and learning to do it properly.

 

 

 

You Wrote:

 

The placement of the hands at the hips - this creates a bad habit as well. A lot of people adopt this when sparring. After placing your hands on your hips thousands of times after performing a punch, what makes you think you're going to keep them up in a real fight ? Boxers have trouble keeping their hands up at first, only after being constantly told to keep their hands up & kicked in the face so they keep them up.

 

-----------

 

The placement of hands beside the hips is more about muscle development and awareness of where you hands are at all times than it is about being a platform to launch your punch. I agree if all you did was punch from the hip, replace it, punch from the hip replace it etc… you would indeed come to grief for all the reasons you stated.

 

ITF Taekwon-do and from the little knowledge I have about Karate, are martial arts that take decades not just years to master. You start off with your punches near your hips and it takes years before you are taught to punch with your hands raised. By this time you have learnt the value of good blocking / dodging / guarding / verbal defence techniques.

 

In our “We want it now” society, its difficult for some people to take the time to learn a martial art, to build good foundations, to learn techniques correctly. I guess that’s why there are so many Mc dojos/dojungs catering for their instant gratification needs.

 

You Wrote:

 

The stances - some of the stances can supposedly be adopted to provide a solid stance, so your opponent can't move you. Are you seriously going to adopt one of these in a fight ? If someone punches/kicks you in the head, it'd actually work better for them since you've got nowhere to move your head and lessen the impact of the strike.

 

----------

 

There are many different stances employed, some offensive, some defensive some transient. You would fool hardy to use an offensives stance when something coming for your head, horses for courses.

 

One of the misconceptions about having a solid stance is that you sit there and wait for something to come at you. As a matter of technique you are required stay in a solid stance only at the moment of impact and then move. To over simplify this, try standing on your tip tows and punching a heavy bag, now do the same from a solid stance. Karate tends to use lower stances than TKD and TKD uses the downward force using sine motion on a shorter stance. Either way the principle is the same. Strike from a solid platform then move.

 

 

 

You Wrote:

 

Sparring - this one is more dojo specific, but anyway. A lot of dojos do non contact sparring to 'eliminate the chance of injury'. GKR (Go Kan Ryu) is one example of such a style. They have a student base of over 35 000 members and they're increasingly exponentially. It sad to see that so many students believe they are getting taught real self defense, when they really have no idea what it's like to hit somoene, get hit, etc. These students are in for a shock if they ever have a fight on the street!

 

--------

 

Sparring is only point scoring, you only use a handful of techniques. ITF TKD is also “Non-Contact” however I have had several broken ribs on more than one occasion to prove that point wrong. (Don’t worry coloured belts its only at black belt rather aggressive tourneys you get the odd injury.)

 

In days gone by it would be quite common for you to sustain injuries at the hands of your master just so you could experience taking a hit. These days if you did something like that to your students you would be lucky if they didn’t sue you.

 

I agree with your point, but what can you do?

 

 

 

Thankyou Freestyler for your post, in one way or another these are the same comments I made to my master and instructors over the years. Hope some of my answers help.

 

Respectfully,