JerryLove Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 So they took an art which they freely admit violates "use of force guidelines" and was inteded for "take no prisoners" (their words) encounters and modifited it into an art appropriate for law-enforcement? When such drastic modifications occur you end up with two likely results. An art very poorly suited to the taks at hand, or an art very unlike the completely different art whcih shares it's name. Nice pictur of an elbow-strike to the face as their example of a proper-force technique to train officers https://www.clearsilat.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 instead of taking a fragment why not quote the whole thing-"from prisoner transport to "take no prisoners"." that means they foucus on both sides of the scope. "The Krav Maga Force Training Division (KMFTD) has taken important steps to refine Krav Maga for the needs of American law enforcement. Keenly aware of use-of-force issues facing law enforcement, KMFTD gathered top authorities in the use-of-force field, including: deputy district attorneys police liability defense lawyers police administrators top defensive tactics instructors In particular, the U.S. Chief Instructor, Darren Levine, is a Deputy District Attorney for Los Angeles County. He lectures frequently on use-of-force issues. This team established a defensive tactics system that protects law enforcement officers from harm and law enforcement agencies from liability." dont forget that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Hearts Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Only 2 people said Kali thats weird. It is stick and knife fighting. Also they could also other cane tecniques. Gunkata(just kidding). Aikido would be all right, it would almost elimante the risk of you seriously harming the perep so you dont get in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirves Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Only 2 people said Kali thats weird. It is stick and knife fighting. But it is not only that. It is just as much an empty hand art. Half the drills you do with knives are also done empty handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryLove Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 instead of taking a fragment why not quote the whole thing-"from prisoner transport to "take no prisoners"." that means they foucus on both sides of the scope. There is a saying about the jack of all trades being the master of none. You are right back into my original issue. 1. KM is specialized for high-violence and not suited to police work. 2. KM is specialized for police work and not suited to high-violence. 3. KM is scitzophrenic and teaches inconsistant levels of force. 4. There are two disctinctly seperate arts which should be treated seperately. A KM which is appropriate to police work (and would run quite contrary to the "elbow-to-the-face" in the photo) would be utterly deviod of almost every technique and philosophy I've ever seen KM teach. Shy of coming out and showing me the KM that you are thinking of, so that I can see it as both effective and approppriate, I don't think we will agree here. https://www.clearsilat.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryLove Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 instead of taking a fragment why not quote the whole thing-"from prisoner transport to "take no prisoners"." that means they foucus on both sides of the scope. There is a saying about the jack of all trades being the master of none. You are right back into my original issue. 1. KM is specialized for high-violence and not suited to police work. 2. KM is specialized for police work and not suited to high-violence. 3. KM is scitzophrenic and teaches inconsistant levels of force. 4. There are two disctinctly seperate arts which should be treated seperately. A KM which is appropriate to police work (and would run quite contrary to the "elbow-to-the-face" in the photo) would be utterly deviod of almost every technique and philosophy I've ever seen KM teach. Shy of coming out and showing me the KM that you are thinking of, so that I can see it as both effective and approppriate, I don't think we will agree here.I think Kali is not coming up here much because it's generally not a good / obvious choice for the situations at hand. It's quite oriented on the attack, and striking. Police work deals with level-of-force issues that I don't see intigrating easlity into a kali program. Of course, It's possible I'm only seeing one aspect of Kali... but it's certainly the aspect most redaily displayed. https://www.clearsilat.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I think there is a distinction that needs to be made, There the type of system that would help you in arresting a resisting subject or in general control..such as akido. Then there are styles that may be used to save an officers life ..one that has things such as gun retention, knife/stick/gun defenses and counters...multiple attackers, awarness training, ground fighting, and various ranges of fighting. Being attacked is a very real threat whether it be by one, two, armed or unarmed., how many officers loose their life to their own gun? AN officer can use whatever force he feels neccesary as long as it is justified..someone trying to take his gun would warrant some serious attention in my opinion. KM is simple, effective and very well rounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 obviously if you think an elbow to the face(as in the phot you point out) when a suspect is trying to take the officers gun is a use of force issue we do have very diffrent views... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryLove Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I think that you fight how you practice. Look at much of what KM talks about in reagrds to limited thinking in high-stress envyronments. If you are traing to elbow faces, you will elbow faces. If you elbow faces as a police officer during general arrests and scuffles, you are using too much force. If you are advocating that you teach entirely different sets of techniques for specifica situations, then you are making an art ill suited for LE traning because of it's complexity. You are also (again) defying much of the mandate under which KM claims to operate. https://www.clearsilat.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 So you feel a softer art should be used, What about when the oifficers life is threatened? You dont think it might be useful to know an effective system for that type of scenario? Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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