Good Style For Police Officers

[JerryLove]

Of course, I agree that a single clip is not a good jude of an art or idea.. but it is all I have to work from here.

 

I do not agree that there really is a good reason to back up. I believe you lost a great deal of potential control when you did, and the only reason you succeeded in the grappe was because of a poor / cooperative attacker.

 

No, many of the people you arrest will not be expert grapplers. The issue here is that what works on an expert will work on an ameture; but what works on an ameture will not neccessairily work on an expert. I beleive firmy you should, unless ther eis reason not to, train for the worst winnable case.

 

Nor am I criticizing the opening position; I think you start in a very good spot. You've moved out from in fron of your perp, vou've engaged him, you are facing him directly, you have good control points on the arm (with both the cuff and the elbow).

 

I think that your starting position is modern and appropriate, I think your wrist lock dates abck to counter-grappling for sword-wilding people. If I had a Katana in my hand and he grabbed my wrist, I might agree with the retreat and turn you did; I don't think it's ideal in the given situation for the reasons I outlined above. It would not take an expert to overcome your response, just a controlled and aggressive attacker.

 

That said, i will not presume to tell you what does and does not work. You tell me that's usually effective and I believe you. I am not a police officer but I have both trained them and trained under them fr HtH. I do think that there is a fixable issue in the shown clip with regards to the wrist-lock / takedown portion. It is, of course, my opinion.

[Kirves]

That said, i will not presume to tell you what does and does not work. You tell me that's usually effective and I believe you. I am not a police officer but I have both trained them and trained under them fr HtH. I do think that there is a fixable issue in the shown clip with regards to the wrist-lock / takedown portion.

 

I would definitely prefer to back down with a cuff on his wrist using his forward energy against him, as in the video, instead of going for some kind of takedown common in BJJ and starting a wrestling match. Especially if I had a uniform, baton, maybe gun, or whatever on me.

 

Of course, I'm not saying that is a perfect technique or unbeatable one. Having said that, I don't believe there is such a technique. Also taking into consideration, that these are police officers, they are usually not alone, they can "back up to back up officers", and HtH combat is actually quite a small part of their training. They are not trained to beat the Gracies, that's why they carry batons and guns, wear wests and always work in pairs (minimum).

 

Normal Hokutoryu training includes full contact bare knuckle training with all ranges of techniques from kicking to wrestling, and all the BJJ clubs in Finland are Hokutoryu clubs too, so they have quite a lot of technique and idea exchange amongst them, that is good. Usually, if you study Hokutoryu in a club that has BJJ, you can go to BJJ classes without paying any extra, I like that.

It is, of course, my opinion.

 

And perfectly valid as that. This is discussion and that's what we are here for!

Edited January 29, 2003 by Kirves

[LOILOI44]

So you don't feel that BJJ trains good skills for keeping yourself upright and grappling? Or you simply believe its skills at such are inferior to the other arts you mentioned?

 

From what I know about BJJ, no I feel it would not be a good style for law enforcement. It would be a good suplement, but as a primary art; there are better choices. I'm not an expert on BJJ, but it was my impression that your intention was to take your opponent down and then position yourself to get them to submit.

 

"Possibly the premier ground-fighting martial art. Made famous by Royce Gracie in the early UFCs in the mid-1990's, it specializes in submission grappling when both fighters are on the ground. Techniques include positional control (especially the "guard" position), and submissions such as chokes and arm locks."

 

That quote come came right from https://www.bjj.org. Being in situations where I have made arrests, BJJ would not work for me. When making an arrest, especially in an urban setting; you want to cuff your suspect quick and get them out of the scene. The longer you are there, the more things that can happen. It can rain strange items off roof tops (ie. flower pots, air conditioners, toilets). Being on the ground in uniform is not a good place to be.

[JerryLove]

I agree with you. Perhaps my understanding of BJJ's stand-up work is in error. Since Many of the stories I hear involve fightst that remained upright (Rorian's story against mulitple attackers on the beack), I'm assuming that BJJ is a good art for people who want to avoid the ground as well.

 

Also, I agree whole-heartedly. I would never consider the ground a desireable place to be (some odd circumstances aside) and retract my suggestion for BJJ in this instance.

[LOILOI44]

I agree with you. Perhaps my understanding of BJJ's stand-up work is in error. Since Many of the stories I hear involve fightst that remained upright (Rorian's story against mulitple attackers on the beack), I'm assuming that BJJ is a good art for people who want to avoid the ground as well.

 

Also, I agree whole-heartedly. I would never consider the ground a desireable place to be (some odd circumstances aside) and retract my suggestion for BJJ in this instance.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that BJJ can't be useful for law enforcement. There is some truth to the stat that 90% of all fights end up on the ground. If you're down there you had better know what you're doing. As far as the argument of not arresting expert grapplers, you'd be surprised. People will shock you at how good they squirm and fight when they don't want to be arrested. Kids today watch tv. They see events like the UFC. They have older brothers and friends who they roll around with. I'm not saying they will be able to perform complex chokes and arm locks, but it's doesn't take much training to ground and pound.

 

I think it's essential for every police officer to study something. If you only knew what the self defense program of the department I used to work for, you would be sick. It's feeble at best. I worked for the larget department in the counrty, and when the training was over I was asking myself "Is that it?" We were told more of what we couldn't do than what we could do. It was more about the department protecting itself from liability. Fortunately many of the cops I knew studied something.

[TJS]

Krav Maga, Krav Maga, Krav Maga.

[LOILOI44]

Krav Maga, Krav Maga, Krav Maga.

 

OK, you've got my attention. What makes it work so well for law enforcement?

[Kirves]

Krav Maga, Krav Maga, Krav Maga.

 

Heh... KM is a good art, but I tend to disagree it would be optimal for law enforcement. Great for military and self defence, but not necessarily the police. My reasoning is simple: too much focus on hard techniques (read: hitting, strikes). The reason why KM is so effective is that it relies on direct and simple throat, groin, solar, knee strikes and direct/quick/dirty tactics. No good for a law enforcement officer. But, yes, it is effective for quick and dirty self defence, can't argue with that.

[JerryLove]

I concur. From what I know of KM, it's well suited to it's intent. A short-course to pprovide a healthy, aggressive soltider with basic unarmed attacks. It's focus on inflicting damage and de-emphasis on restraint and control would seem to make it a poor candditate for police.

[TJS]

Krav Maga has a Force training (IE) law enforcment program...They have trained Countless Police officers across the US.

 

http://www.kravmaga.com/Home/Programs/Law_Enforcement_-_TOC/law_enforcement_-_toc.html

 

has everything you want to know about the Force training division.

 

has info on it...Also KM does have softer/control techniques.