Sensei mistake

[catlike]

Interesting replies, all quality stuff.

What if you notice another student doing something wrong? Do you say anything?

I noted a higher kyu student wasn't kicking correctly during bunkai, and it meant they weren't in the correct position for me to respond. I tried to suggest the correct movement, she immediately had a go at me for disrespecting a higher grade!

[mushybees]

disrespecting a higher grade!

That's all I'll say about that.

Higher grades should engender respect. Not demand it.

I once trained as a 5th kyu with a dan grade gentleman (who I wont name) at a seminar over 2 days. He was polite, humorous and made me feel really at ease. Other than a black belt we don't have dan bars or badges or anything else to denote our grade. While it was obvious that he was a very good martial artist I didn't have much frame of reference at the time to recognise his ability and have a feel for his grade.

It wasn't until later I discovered he was the CI in our style of an entire eastern european country! He was attending the seminar because he was shortly due to start teaching them but when he saw we were an odd number for partners he chose to join in.

I saw true humility up close and it was inspiring.

I welcome correction from anyone but reserve the right to keep on trucking as I am if I prefer.

[MatsuShinshii]

Interesting replies, all quality stuff.

What if you notice another student doing something wrong? Do you say anything?

I noted a higher kyu student wasn't kicking correctly during bunkai, and it meant they weren't in the correct position for me to respond. I tried to suggest the correct movement, she immediately had a go at me for disrespecting a higher grade!

Sounds like someone was embarrassed.

Having said that, Bunkai is meant to make you think and respond according to the specific attack unless its basic "generic" Bunkai. Not everyone kicks the same or strikes the same (speed, angle, technique, power, etc). Just because you strike at a specific height in the Kata does not mean anything in most instances.

I would have took the opportunity to adapt to her kick and effect a slightly different response and if she said anything then I would point out that she was not being a good Uke. This is how we learn.

The one thing I hate about modern Karate is the boiler plate "strike like this height, angle, speed, power, etc.". You will be hard pressed to find the same way of striking on the streets so why practice this way?

You must adjust to the attack and if one application does not fit the mold utilize another or just adjust it to work. Nothing is perfect in a fight. It's messy. Why train clean? All you end up doing is building muscle memory and when the time comes and that perfect strike doesn't happen, you get clocked.

Not you specifically it's more of a general observation that your post brought to mind.

[catlike]

Sounds like someone was embarrassed.

Having said that, Bunkai is meant to make you think and respond according to the specific attack unless its basic "generic" Bunkai. Not everyone kicks the same or strikes the same (speed, angle, technique, power, etc). Just because you strike at a specific height in the Kata does not mean anything in most instances.

I would have took the opportunity to adapt to her kick and effect a slightly different response and if she said anything then I would point out that she was not being a good Uke. This is how we learn.

The one thing I hate about modern Karate is the boiler plate "strike like this height, angle, speed, power, etc.". You will be hard pressed to find the same way of striking on the streets so why practice this way?

You must adjust to the attack and if one application does not fit the mold utilize another or just adjust it to work. Nothing is perfect in a fight. It's messy. Why train clean? All you end up doing is building muscle memory and when the time comes and that perfect strike doesn't happen, you get clocked.

Not you specifically it's more of a general observation that your post brought to mind.

I completely agree with everything you wrote. As it happened, yes it was basic and generic. And I was very much trying to adapt what Sensei had just shown us when it was clear she wasn't doing it right, but as you noted, I thought I wasn't getting a proper go at it with her not performing correctly.

The incident caused me to think more about respect. Would this person have given me any respect outside the dojo in general life, had we not met inside? Was there a sense of entitlement going on? Did Sensei see the incident and decide to ignore it? (I did ask if anyone had brought anything to his attention, or if he needed to talk to me a week later, he said no).

And then question my motivation to 'correct' her. Should I have kept quiet? Would I like to be corrected by someone lower 'ranking' than myself? I kept returning to the point "I won't be able to learn if my partner refuses to carry out the drill".

In the end though, it's not worth wasting time over.

[sensei8]

Sounds like someone was embarrassed.

Having said that, Bunkai is meant to make you think and respond according to the specific attack unless its basic "generic" Bunkai. Not everyone kicks the same or strikes the same (speed, angle, technique, power, etc). Just because you strike at a specific height in the Kata does not mean anything in most instances.

I would have took the opportunity to adapt to her kick and effect a slightly different response and if she said anything then I would point out that she was not being a good Uke. This is how we learn.

The one thing I hate about modern Karate is the boiler plate "strike like this height, angle, speed, power, etc.". You will be hard pressed to find the same way of striking on the streets so why practice this way?

You must adjust to the attack and if one application does not fit the mold utilize another or just adjust it to work. Nothing is perfect in a fight. It's messy. Why train clean? All you end up doing is building muscle memory and when the time comes and that perfect strike doesn't happen, you get clocked.

Not you specifically it's more of a general observation that your post brought to mind.

I completely agree with everything you wrote. As it happened, yes it was basic and generic. And I was very much trying to adapt what Sensei had just shown us when it was clear she wasn't doing it right, but as you noted, I thought I wasn't getting a proper go at it with her not performing correctly.

The incident caused me to think more about respect. Would this person have given me any respect outside the dojo in general life, had we not met inside? Was there a sense of entitlement going on? Did Sensei see the incident and decide to ignore it? (I did ask if anyone had brought anything to his attention, or if he needed to talk to me a week later, he said no).

And then question my motivation to 'correct' her. Should I have kept quiet? Would I like to be corrected by someone lower 'ranking' than myself? I kept returning to the point "I won't be able to learn if my partner refuses to carry out the drill".

In the end though, it's not worth wasting time over.

Well meant intents are nothing more than that, and they should be curbed.

If the Sensei says/said nothing, then no one says/said nothing because the students job is to learn, and nothing else. The Sensei's job is to teach, and if the Sensei hasn't designated you to do a specific duty, then your duty is clear...LEARN/TRAIN!! NOTHING ELSE!!

Students mean well when they "suggest" things to their fellow students, however, when a student does "suggest" anything, that student is assuming a position that that student doesn't possess at all.

If the Sensei didn't/hasn't said anything, then neither should ANYONE ELSE!!

A students interpretation of what the Sensei is/has teaching/taught might deride the methodology/ideology of that said technique, in which, that student now has to relearn the technique properly at every nuance that is that technique; and that's not fair to any student.

Know your role, and not the Sensei's role!!