Black Belts Like Candy?

[MatsuShinshii]

A good question to ask students of all levels and ages before testing them is “What is more important to you? Getting your XYZ belt or getting better at you already know?”

Whatever the answer, it will be surprising and also give a good idea of how much a student understands about progress in martial arts.

I like the concept. The problem with this is whether they answer truthfully.

I personally think that you can judge a students intentions based on how they conduct themselves in class. Those looking for the glitz and accolades are usually the students that are in it for the belt. If winning trophies is more important than learning, again a pretty good indication. You get my point.

I wonder what would happen if you asked them - if I give you this black belt but you could never return to class would you still want it? It would be interesting to see how many would take you up on the belt.

[sensei8]

A good question to ask students of all levels and ages before testing them is “What is more important to you? Getting your XYZ belt or getting better at you already know?”

Whatever the answer, it will be surprising and also give a good idea of how much a student understands about progress in martial arts.

I like the concept. The problem with this is whether they answer truthfully.

I personally think that you can judge a students intentions based on how they conduct themselves in class. Those looking for the glitz and accolades are usually the students that are in it for the belt. If winning trophies is more important than learning, again a pretty good indication. You get my point.

I wonder what would happen if you asked them - if I give you this black belt but you could never return to class would you still want it? It would be interesting to see how many would take you up on the belt.

To the bold type above...

What scares me the most is that I believe that the number of people nowadays would take the black belt, knowing very well the circumstances.

Pray I'm dead wrong with my suspicious thoughts.

[Alan Armstrong]

A good question to ask students of all levels and ages before testing them is “What is more important to you? Getting your XYZ belt or getting better at you already know?”

Whatever the answer, it will be surprising and also give a good idea of how much a student understands about progress in martial arts.

I like the concept. The problem with this is whether they answer truthfully.

I personally think that you can judge a students intentions based on how they conduct themselves in class. Those looking for the glitz and accolades are usually the students that are in it for the belt. If winning trophies is more important than learning, again a pretty good indication. You get my point.

I wonder what would happen if you asked them - if I give you this black belt but you could never return to class would you still want it? It would be interesting to see how many would take you up on the belt.

To the bold type above...

What scares me the most is that I believe that the number of people nowadays would take the black belt, knowing very well the circumstances.

Pray I'm dead wrong with my suspicious thoughts.

Sorry to say, it is worse than your suspicious thoughts sensei8

[MatsuShinshii]

Wow that's really sad to think so many would hold a piece of material in higher regard than their own integrity. Really sad.

[Alan Armstrong]

I didn't find one with a McDojo logo.

http://www.martialartcertificates.com/gallery/

[MatsuShinshii]

Uuuummmm ok.

[KC1996]

The grade signifies that you have not only learned but also have a very high proficiency. Just my two cents.

To me this is bang on.

A black belt should mean mastering of the basics....."mastering" being the key word here. Many time I see the interpretation of mastering to be "barely fumbling through" with a lack of a solid basic foundation and consistent performance. I don't expect a new shodan black belt to be super human, but I would expect that they would have a solid knowledge of basic techniques, decent form, have their required kata down pat, and know basic applications. If they are regularly making mistakes in the kata, their basic form is sloppy and their lacking some fundamental skills then this person has not demonstrated that they have master the basics.

I don't think we do karate (regardless of style) and flavors by advancing students who are not ready yet.

[JR 137]

The grade signifies that you have not only learned but also have a very high proficiency. Just my two cents.

To me this is bang on.

A black belt should mean mastering of the basics....."mastering" being the key word here. Many time I see the interpretation of mastering to be "barely fumbling through" with a lack of a solid basic foundation and consistent performance. I don't expect a new shodan black belt to be super human, but I would expect that they would have a solid knowledge of basic techniques, decent form, have their required kata down pat, and know basic applications. If they are regularly making mistakes in the kata, their basic form is sloppy and their lacking some fundamental skills then this person has not demonstrated that they have master the basics.

I don't think we do karate (regardless of style) and flavors by advancing students who are not ready yet.

Define mastery, because that word has very broad meanings. My former sensei claimed he’s never truly mastered anything, and nor will he ever. Mastery to some means perfection, and/or there’s no room for improvement.

I think a shodan has shown proficiency in the basics/foundation of the art. A shodan must be able to use/apply those basics in many different situations. Kyu ranks should be able to look at a shodan and get a relative textbook view of the techniques. Obviously people’s physical abilities differ, and one has to take physical impairments/disabilities, and age into consideration, but a shodan must be able to apply what’s required for the rank.

I’ve looked at kyu ranks as building a robot. The techniques are basic, and there’s little variation. I look at the lower yudansha ranks as making the art their own and starting to pass it on (1st-3rd dan or so). I view the middle yudansha ranks as teachers who are still making the art their own, but are more preserving and passing it down to the next generation (4th-6th or so). I view a master (6th and up) as someone who’s truly made the art their own, is fully versed in it, and is overseeing the teachers. The teachers’ teachers if you will.

The highest I’ve attained is about 3 months before my nidan test, so what do I really know?

I guess what I’m really trying to say is when you watch a shodan spar, you should clearly see him/her using the techniques the art has taught him/her this far, using them effectively, and not “getting lucky” nor the techniques working by chance. There’s other things too, but this is the easiest and most reliable assessment IMO. Without that ability, the rest of it, while important too in the grand scheme of things, is just window dressing.

[Alan Armstrong]

The grade signifies that you have not only learned but also have a very high proficiency. Just my two cents.

To me this is bang on.

A black belt should mean mastering of the basics....."mastering" being the key word here. Many time I see the interpretation of mastering to be "barely fumbling through" with a lack of a solid basic foundation and consistent performance. I don't expect a new shodan black belt to be super human' date=' but I would expect that they would have a solid knowledge of basic techniques, decent form, have their required kata down pat, and know basic applications. If they are regularly making mistakes in the kata, their basic form is sloppy and their lacking some fundamental skills then this person has not demonstrated that they have master the basics.

I don't think we do karate (regardless of style) and flavors by advancing students who are not ready yet.[/quote']

Define mastery, because that word has very broad meanings. My former sensei claimed he’s never truly mastered anything, and nor will he ever. Mastery to some means perfection, and/or there’s no room for improvement.

I think a shodan has shown proficiency in the basics/foundation of the art. A shodan must be able to use/apply those basics in many different situations. Kyu ranks should be able to look at a shodan and get a relative textbook view of the techniques. Obviously people’s physical abilities differ, and one has to take physical impairments/disabilities, and age into consideration, but a shodan must be able to apply what’s required for the rank.

I’ve looked at kyu ranks as building a robot. The techniques are basic, and there’s little variation. I look at the lower yudansha ranks as making the art their own and starting to pass it on (1st-3rd dan or so). I view the middle yudansha ranks as teachers who are still making the art their own, but are more preserving and passing it down to the next generation (4th-6th or so). I view a master (6th and up) as someone who’s truly made the art their own, is fully versed in it, and is overseeing the teachers. The teachers’ teachers if you will.

The highest I’ve attained is about 3 months before my nidan test, so what do I really know?

I guess what I’m really trying to say is when you watch a shodan spar, you should clearly see him/her using the techniques the art has taught him/her this far, using them effectively, and not “getting lucky” nor the techniques working by chance. There’s other things too, but this is the easiest and most reliable assessment IMO. Without that ability, the rest of it, while important too in the grand scheme of things, is just window dressing.

Define mastery you ask:

Knowing what you are doing better than your piers, in your chosen field of expertise.

[sensei8]

Mastery, imho, is an assumption that is fraught with many delusions of grandeur.

I will admit, in my tender youth, I was hooked by similar labels of mysticism in such wonderment because I, too, wanted to wear those badges, as a means of authority.

It's great to know that those childlike interests waned away in time. By the time I earned my Sandan, I shortly thereafter, came to the epiphany that those unwarranted desires were completely unimportant to my MA betterment.

I don't measure myself against other MAists as I use to because another MAist is just that to me...another MAist, and nothing more. I can stand on the floor with the most prominent MAist on the face of earth, and not be overwhelmed in their presence because that MAist that stands before me is just like me...a human being, and no one can convince me any other way.

Respect is earned, and respect is a fragile thing, and respect isn't worshiping.

In Shindokan, we've those unflattering labels, at the design of our Soke, and nowadays, I'm ashamed of these titles because they are so limited and so ugly. On the floor....I'm Bob...just that simple. During the days of Soke and Dai-Soke, ceremonies were their way of life, and in that, they made it our way of life it we were to be exposed to Shindokan in any shape, way, and/or form.

Being introduced in any salutation other than Bob causes me to grimace and blush in embarrassment because it's not flattering whatsoever. Unfortunately, Kaicho is my official title within the SKKA, in which I therefore tolerate in within its official entitlement. But I loath it so!!

For me to master anything, I believe that I must be perfect, and seeing that I'm the furthest thing from being perfect, I'm, by no means, not a master of anything.

I can hold my own on the floor with anyone inside or outside of Shindokan. Oh yeah, I'm not unbeatable...just like any other MAist walking on the face of Earth, past, present, and future.