I have an addiction

[Luther unleashed]

I have an addiction but it is also something that is somewhat unfortunate. I hold multiple black belts however nothing above 1st degree. Why you ask? Well, as an example I hold a 1st degree black belt in Tang Soo Do. The style or lineage is Moo Duk Kwan. My instructor only taught to 1st Dan. It happens to be a very difficult lineage to find in Arizona. I have considered going to another organization but a few I have checked into have said that I will need to start at white belt. I have no problem starting a white belt because I am not all about the belts however if I'm going to start a white belt I would rather not do it in a Nother form of The Same (TSD)! I would prefer to start something new. And this has become my addiction. Although I would love to move higher in rank I have grown to see the value of holding more then one black belt, and the value of knowledge in other arts.

In my most previous school I also earn a black belt. After black belt the curriculum changed to Kung Fu, and again I have grown to really enjoy this change. Instead of advancing in that particular aren't the way it is I moved on to something totally different which really keeps me interested and offered me a different way to approach martial arts and techniques. I hold to first tan black belts and one black sash equivalent. I am training in a new art now and as I said I'm really enjoying constantly learning new.

There is a very famous martial artist that did the same. The only difference is he seemed to keep it more in the karate family well I have gone from karate to kung fu, and things in between like Jeet Kune do and kickboxing. The famous martial artist goes by the name of Michael Jai white. He holds several black belts although over the last year's he has started gaining some rank in each one Beyond black belt. I have come to believe that three black belts is stronger than a 3rd Dan in one. Manny will argue because they will say their training is much more advanced but I will argue that my training is much more open minded and Rich with concepts. I would love to go beyond black belt at least in the main style I have taught which is Essentially Tang Soo Do, but my future looks grim in that regard sense as I stated above, it's difficult to find the appropriate lineage, TSD over many martial arts seems to be broken into so many different branches which makes it very heavy and politics and variations of techniques. It's a shame, but one thing I've learned is all styles and schools will except me as a white belt and this is the beauty in my newfound addiction.

Clearly this topic can be spun off into a few others such as how effective One can be with many martial arts behind them compared to specializing in one. My main focus was just to talk about I suppose how fun and motivating it is to start a new journey. It's also a very strange feeling starting a new martial art as a white belt. It's very weird to have run my own school and to have been a black belt for years, and stand next to white belts as a white belt LOL. I never realized it would be so humbling but it is.

What are some of your thoughts on the matter. Have any of you felt this appreciation for changing curriculum?

[JR 137]

Sounds like you have a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell.

[Tempest]

It's fun to be a student again. That being said, it seems like you are mostly doing things that are variations of a theme. You are studying various martial arts that are essentially unarmed punch/kick styles with limited or no grappling or use of weapons. For your next belt, try BJJ or FMA or something equally completely outside your current wheelhouse. Who knows? You might finds something that you want to spend the rest of your life with.

[sensei8]

You're in Phoenix!! Wastelander is in Phoenix!! You're wanting to earn a black belt in another MA style, if I'm understanding you!!

Then visit Wastelander's dojo, Peaceful Warrior Martial Arts & Healing Center, where he trains, and has earned a black belt under a dynamic instructor, Richard M. Poage, who's the CI, and I believe that he's a Rokudan (6th Dan), please correct me if I'm wrong about the Rokudan, Noah.

This comes from their website...

"He has trained martial arts since the young age of four under Okinawan Grand Masters; Taika Oyata, Naonobu Ahagon and Shugoro Nakazato. Richard currently trains in Shorin-Ryu Shorinkan karate under Shugoro Nakazato and his immediate Sensei, Kyoshi Eddie Bethea. Richard holds a fourth degree black belt in karate and a third degree in kobudo. Richard also holds varying degrees of black belts in Shuri-Ryu, Shorei-Ryu and Ryukyu Kempo."

So you can see by that, that Sensei Poage has trained in different MA styles, and has earned varying Dan ranks in the process.

Sounds kind of familiar...kind of like...well...what you've done and what you're wanting to do now.

Check their dojo out; it doubt that you'll be disappointed, if at all!!

Now, onto this...

I have come to believe that three black belts is stronger than a 3rd Dan in one.

I disagree with this statement quite wholeheartedly!! Why? Well, let me ask you this, first. Is quality more valuable than quantity?? If not, then I'll just bow out of this topic/thread. However, if yes, than please allow me to say the following...

It's not about the ranks, but it's all about the knowledge and experience that one's acquired during their MA journey!! Ranks, as you know, are NOT the measuring tools of effectiveness; knowledge and experience are tantamount over anything, irregardless of ranks!!

If I subscribe to your quote above, than I suppose you'd be inclined to be of the mindset that 9 black belts is stronger than a 9th Dan in one!! I've earned a Kudan (9th Dan) in one MA style; Shindokan Saitou-ryu.

What are some of your thoughts on the matter. Have any of you felt this appreciation for changing curriculum?

I can appreciate the changing curriculum, as I've done so once in my High School days when I trained for 1 year in TKD, WHILE still training in Shindokan; the birth of my cross training addiction!!

Follow your MA path the way that you want to, no matter what anyone might or might not say; it's your MA journey, and not theirs!! Search your heart, and follow your heart!!

[Alan Armstrong]

Three black belts being better than a third degree black belt issue.

I thought a black belt represents knowing or understanding the basics of a style.

As each level progress one degree at a time, then a deeper level of the style is revealed and understood.

Or a degree could be awarded for an outstanding contribution to the style.

Also a degree could be awarded for a none martial art accomplishment, such as learning a health or medical related topic.

As well as fighting a good cause such as cancer, could be a reason to be awarded a degree, to an existing black belt.

As we live in a world of contrasts, to look up to black belts then this implies to look down on white belts.

Personally I don't wear a symbolic belt. When I face an opponent, my experience compacted in the moment is enough.

[Wastelander]

sensei8 - Thank you for the plug! Lex and I are friends on Facebook, and he has a standing invitation--we'd be happy to have him. For what it's worth, my Sensei is a Godan, so higher than the website (that needs updated ) and lower than your estimation.

With regard to the subject at hand, I would say that no ranks are equal across systems, so a first degree black belt in one style might be a green belt in another, or a third degree black belt in another. You can't really go by belts for consistency. Learning to the point where you feel ready to move on is going to be a personal decision, and shouldn't really be associated with a belt rank. I will say that, as a general rule, one should try to develop a deep understanding of an art, even if they explore the wider world of martial arts out there. Cross-training is a great thing to do, and will absolutely benefit you, but there is something to be said for really fine-tuning your body to the mechanics and methods of your style, and supplementing that with other material.

[Luther unleashed]

Great responses guys.

I'm going to address in order.

Tempest, I appreciate what your saying. A few years back we added a Jiu Jitsu program to our school. I tried it and ended up honestly not showing up those nights. Was only a few times a month but it really wasn't for me. Then when I had my dojo I hired a jiu Jitsu guy. Of course I had an open invitation to train free. I really enjoyed watching their classes, but it's not for me, and I know that for a fact. I find it boring to participate in as well as having a serious case of claustrophobia and having a sweaty guy on me does little to bring about a happy face.

As for different, I understand Kung Fu is striking just like Kickboxing or Karate, but it's very different for me and I think that's what I enjoy. Quite honestly I'd be very inclined to use direct strikes in a kickboxing or Karate type manner in a fight. Highly unlikely Kung Fu. I find it's an excellent cross training method as it helps with strengthening, and helps me sometimes see different ways of approaching, but it ultimately helps me with what I do and not something new. I practiced Haidong Gumdo for some time. Great cross training, fun and broke up the monotony but not something I'd use. I guess all I'm saying is even though it seems like I'm doing the same to me it's very different. Wresting? I may go there however lol.

Sensei8, and Wastelander, always appreciate your input. Wastlander pretty much touched on our Facebook relationship. He posts a good deal of videos and he's very good at what he does. His passion shows. I know exactly where he trains and who his instructor is, from things I see that is not personally. He's exceptional. He seems to really enjoy forms and applications and I have always loved that. The thought had crossed my mind honestly, but I recently joined a Kung Fu place in Phoenix and I'm trying it out. Sadly it may or may not work out. The curriculum for first degree black belt (sash) is actually a style I have done before, not really sure if that's a venture I'm into right now BUT the positive is it's a southern style of Kung Fu, which means a main characteristic is low stances and lots of hands. This is ideal since I'm struggling to get my back healthy again. I have had a difficult time motivating myself so I need class right now. High kicks are difficult. Work toward a black sash in something I can already perform? Maybe if it strikes me enough. Wastelander is also twice as far. Still though, I'll keep it in mind and thanks Noah for the invitation.

To sum it up I can address Alan Armstrong as well as Sensei8 on the topic of degrees vs black belts. I had a response and then saw Noah's post. Similarly I was going to say it's all very broad and generalized. All rank isn't the same. You know, I have practiced a few arts that got me know here with rank. Literally. I train Hung Gar Kung Fu, some schools use sashes, some don't. I have nothing to show you, except to show you. It should be understood that I feel rank isn't quit as important as some, because similarly my Jeet Kune Do or Kickboxing techniques have to show themselves. No black belts. As to the challenging thought about what's better, higher rank or more styles, An instructor told me that "it's not what you know, it's how well you know it"! That sounds like it's defending your stances, but I challenge you to think it's also defending mine.

What I mean is if I practice my first degree Tang Soo Do material for years, and although I practice another style often, my Tang Soo Do will still grow. I might not learn new forms with instruction, or new techniques from those forms, BUT I delve deeper often and learn more from Bassai Dae, or Naihanchi then I knew before. I still get better and grow. Is black belt the beginning? I suppose so, but if you train and learn and explore 1st Dan material for 10 years are you a beginner? I challenge the thought that learning more always means "better" weather its in a new style as you see me doing, or in a new curriculum same art as many others do.

Don't misunderstand. I enjoy TSD and if I found somebody to take me at same rank and allow me to continue, I would. But I'd still take my time as I want more. I enjoy the cultural differences, I enjoy Kung Fu poetry and Tang Soo Do self defense/Kicks. I'm not saying I'm against going farther, I'm just saying it's less important to me. I worded it as a challenging thought and I should have been more graceful in my wording.

Thanks for the responses guys, I appreciate all of them.

[Alan Armstrong]

This could also be an appreciation and recognition issue holding belts in many styles or Dans in one style.

Which again falls in to marketing oneself and showing credibility to others.

For a career martial artist these aspects are important as we live in a society that is structured around credentials and authenticity.

[Luther unleashed]

This could also be an appreciation and recognition issue holding belts in many styles or Dans in one style.

Which again falls in to marketing oneself and showing credibility to others.

For a career martial artist these aspects are important as we live in a society that is structured around credentials and authenticity.

I hear what you're saying, I'm not sure if you're saying that this is something that I am into because it definitely isn't, like I said I trained in martial arts that don't offer any rank so not really the issue for me. I think the black belt is just a good stopping point if you were going to have one that's all.

I don't see belts as carrying the same weight as a lot of people do because I trained in many styles I've seen such a huge variation in the standard so it means less to me personally. Also training in styles that have no belt system whatsoever I recognize the high level of skill and understanding one can have without a single belt .

You are definitely right though, I have seen instructors who are very knowledgeable on the surface meeting with the traditions and patterns and so on and so forth but really lacking any in-depth understanding, me on the other hand I feel I have a much more in-depth understanding than the average person who six out martial arts and learns in this manner. Belts can be used as a nice symbol but in the end they are just a marker and everybody holds a different Idea of how to use them.

Edit: just to give you an example when I trained in Tong Che Bahk Do, I armed the black belt alongside other students. Because of my background and being much closer to the chief instructor I was on a very different level and was teaching black belts Texas before I was even one myself. In general I think it works is a good defining marker but that's only in general and sometimes it just isn't going to give you a true concept of the abilities of the person wearing it. I taught this art, an held a higher standard then many teachers I saw teaching it WRONG. It wasn't the way it was taught to them. They went on to earn 2nd Dan and I didn't have the ability for reasons that are too long to explain but him closing was one of them. If rank is all that matters I suppose some will choose to go learn from the 2nd or 3rd Dan, rather then the first but I assure you that doesn't always add up the way they assume it does.

My point is that I'm not Belt chasing, simply finding a good point to try new, and add to my skills in a different way.

[Alan Armstrong]

This could also be an appreciation and recognition issue holding belts in many styles or Dans in one style.

Which again falls in to marketing oneself and showing credibility to others.

For a career martial artist these aspects are important as we live in a society that is structured around credentials and authenticity.

I hear what you're saying, I'm not sure if you're saying that this is something that I am into because it definitely isn't, like I said I trained in martial arts that don't offer any rank so not really the issue for me. I think the black belt is just a good stopping point if you were going to have one that's all.

I don't see belts as carrying the same weight as a lot of people do because I trained in many styles I've seen such a huge variation in the standard so it means less to me personally. Also training in styles that have no belt system whatsoever I recognize the high level of skill and understanding one can have without a single belt .

You are definitely right though, I have seen instructors who are very knowledgeable on the surface meeting with the traditions and patterns and so on and so forth but really lacking any in-depth understanding, me on the other hand I feel I have a much more in-depth understanding than the average person who six out martial arts and learns in this manner. Belts can be used as a nice symbol but in the end they are just a marker and everybody holds a different Idea of how to use them.

Edit: just to give you an example when I trained in Tong Che Bahk Do, I armed the black belt alongside other students. Because of my background and being much closer to the chief instructor I was on a very different level and was teaching black belts Texas before I was even one myself. In general I think it works is a good defining marker but that's only in general and sometimes it just isn't going to give you a true concept of the abilities of the person wearing it. I taught this art, an held a higher standard then many teachers I saw teaching it WRONG. It wasn't the way it was taught to them. They went on to earn 2nd Dan and I didn't have the ability for reasons that are too long to explain but him closing was one of them. If rank is all that matters I suppose some will choose to go learn from the 2nd or 3rd Dan, rather then the first but I assure you that doesn't always add up the way they assume it does.

My point is that I'm not Belt chasing, simply finding a good point to try new, and add to my skills in a different way.

Belt chasing isn't a very good career option, style curiosity is more plausible.

Changing curriculum is something I have experience in and yes it is fun and motivating to start a new journey.

It also carries with it a new set of problems as not belonging to any particular style (completely) can put a person in a lone Wolf situation.

Learning many styles is rewarding but by default can make a person knowledgeable, that ironically isn't always a popular position to be in.

As having different styles (experience) under one's belt gives that person more options to draw from.

In today's world, it is more possible than ever to be a white belt in one style and to be able to defeat the Black belt instructor, due to holding multiple belts in other styles, of course possessing valuable knowledge and experience.

A little off topic but...

Must admit that I have learned more from my defeats and the bullies that picked on me, as they showed me my weakness.

Not all martial artist appreciate their defeats as I do. Sure, being beaten up buy thugs, or tuff guys isn't what many people want to remember.

Yet thugs and tuff guys all come from different styles and or backgrounds. The variety of my defeats defies definition. Learning many types of combat can be addictive, for some.

So if I had a choice to be a Tenth degree black belt or hold Ten black belts in ten different styles, my answer would be; neither.

Expressing myself, with techniques that works for me and not abiding to others that worked for them, make sense.

I will and can learn something from everyone, with or without style or belts, of course experienced advice saves alot of time and pain in the long run.

My advice is to be "NOT" like me.

Rather:

Pick one style and stick with it.

Be the best you can be at that style.

Stick with your CI through thick and thin.

Promote and teach this style and pass it on.

Put your family first, work second and MA last.