Does any school?

[bushido_man96]

I don't personally agree with demotions. If they have done something heinous enough to warrant a demotion, IMHO then they deserve to be shown the door.

For one a demotion of rank is perception alone. The student still has the skills and knowledge so the only thing this accomplishes is taking away one belt and replacing it with another. Furthermore the student remains in class (if they do not quit) and at some point I am sure that the instructor will elevate them back up. Thus this is not really a punishment.

I agree. Also, I have an issue with demotion if it involves the physical taking of a belt. The student earned that belt (and likely paid for it), so, to me, taking that away from someone is pretty much theft. If it is something that I felt that I absolutely had to do, I would take to the Grandmaster at the head school about just having the demotion made in the records of the HQ school.

Just out of curiosity: How many schools make students pay for their belts? Our color belts are given to us (no testing fee what so ever.) Black belt testing costs something like $100, but that covers a new uniform, embroidered belt and whatever paperwork our master instructor needs to fill out to register black belts with the WT.

This arrangement has been the norm for me since the start of my training, back in the early '90s. I don't see anything wrong with charging testing fees, as there are usually expenses involved with them, like purchasing the belts, providing for guest instructors at times, etc.

Another reason I like to see them as separate fees is because that way I only charge a student to test when they choose to test.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Having only 4 belts including black, paying for belts is not really a big expense. It has been the norm in nearly every dojo everywhere since at least the last 20years. Probably longer.

Of course there are more than a few less-than-ethical instructors who have taken advantage of this by having a full rainbow of belts for which they charge indecent fees.

In most cases, colour belts cost very little and often given. The black belt and above usually has a few costs which includes the belt itself and other things related to organizing the test.

[bushido_man96]

Having only 4 belts including black, paying for belts is not really a big expense. It has been the norm in nearly every dojo everywhere since at least the last 20years. Probably longer.

Of course there are more than a few less-than-ethical instructors who have taken advantage of this by having a full rainbow of belts for which they charge indecent fees.

In most cases, colour belts cost very little and often given. The black belt and above usually has a few costs which includes the belt itself and other things related to organizing the test.

There are some who do and some who don't charge for testing fees. Personally, I don't hold it against instructors that do. Its their business, literally and figuratively, and as long as the student understands the arrangement, then there's no concern. Some instructors work as a non-profit, and some don't. I'm fine either way. If by paying testing fees it helps the instructor keep the school in good shape and purchases great training equipment for the students to use, then I'm all for it.

[OneKickWonder]

So I think most here would say that rank should be earned not given. However, does anyone go to a school or been to a school where one has to earn the white belt? I mean after all that is a rank.

Years ago when I trained in kung fu, I had to grade for my white sash. I don't think kung fu traditionally has grades, but of course us western sorts often expect them as progress markers. So we had them. White sash was given after you'd showed some ability to defend yourself in a surprise ambush situation by our instructors who'd concealed themselves in various doorways along a corridor we had to walk down. They'd jump out and mock attack. We were judged on how quickly we were able to react. It was great fun. Not sure how realistic though.