Had a need to know about Aikido then payed the consequences

[Alan Armstrong]

Had a need to know idea, now I'm paying for it. In retrospect I should have just posted the question here first.

You could probably be wondering what I did that is prompting all this fuss.

Must say first off that it was significantly embarrassing for me, so please don't do what I did.

The question I posed for my self, was how effect my one handed wrist locks are. Fair enough so far; I didn't want to try it out on anyone as breaking other peoples bones (wrist) isn't a very popular thing to do.

Hope you can see where this is heading. I wanted to know if my wrist was resistant enough not to break from using full power; my own power.

With my right hand I put my left hand in an Aikido wrist lock and proceed to see which was stronger; my attacking right hand or my defending left hand.

After a few attempts I called it a draw as my left hand managed to be no worse from the experiment.

I did think at the time, that this was something that just evened itself out. Till the very next day, my left hand was very swollen with bruise and in pain.

A few days later the bruise dissipated and the swelling went down but the pain was still there. Oddly enough the pain started showing up in different places in my hand. I had to put some ice on it for a while.

Sharp pains kept appearing in different areas of my hand, till finally weeks later the pain stayed in three spots.

Now I have no pain in my hand but my wrist clicks in and out and sometimes it is painful when it clicks.

In conclusion to my experience and experiment, the resisting hand is not as strong as the attacking controlling hand.

This is coming from a person that has first hand experience on the subject. Had I used two hands (which is physically impossible) against one wrist/hand the consequences would be far greater than I would be able to imagine.

Have you ever had your wrist broken or have you ever broke another person's wrist?

[TJ-Jitsu]

Just so we're clear...

You fought yourself and you both succeeded and failed at the same time?

[Alan Armstrong]

Just so we're clear...

You fought yourself and you both succeeded and failed at the same time?

Yes! Yin vs Yang and I won lost!

I understand now that if a person is half as strong as I am, that person will need both hands to possibly injure my wrist.

If a person is equal in strength to me, we will both have difficultly damaging each others wrist with one hand but is very possible to severally damage each others single hand using two hands.

Then if a person is twice as strong as me, then that person can possibly damage my wrist by using only one hand and I will need both of my hands to defend against the other person's one.

I have been in a situation where the other person was twice as strong than me, and yes I needed my other hand to stop him from breaking my wrist.

[Tempest]

Yeah, wrist locks are VERY based on leverage. You really don't have to be all that strong to apply them, but to apply them against a resisting opponent you do have to be quick and technically proficient.

Keep in mind that the leverages you can exert against yourself are FAR different than the leverage another person can exert against you.

Wrist locks are banned in most, not all, but most combat sports because under adrenal stress the pain nerves in the wrists and hands tend not to work, thus people will be caught in a lock that they don't think is that dangerous until that tell-tale POP that signifies a fracture.

And before anyone brings it up, I am QUITE aware that wrist locks were not popular in the early UFC competitions when there were no gloves and they were not banned, but there are several reasons for this.

1. The wrist is actually quite flexible, for a wrist-lock to work it must torque the joint beyond it's range of motion. While you are doing this, unless you have done something to prevent it, the other person is attempting to cave your face in with a fist.

2. The basic defense against wrist locks is to make a fist. This does not protect against all of them, and in working with weapons, where to make a fist you would have to drop the weapon, you see the real beauty of wrist-locks.

3. The main use for wrist-locks in an unarmed contest is as a sort of grip-break that can turn in to something else if you catch it just right. The early UFC's were absolutely dominated by ground fighters. They had NO interest in grip breaking as they wanted nothing more than to go to the ground with their opponent.

[Alan Armstrong]

Using wrist locks fall mostly in the relm of self defense than in martial art sporting events.

As an older martial artist chances are that I'm not running from a confrontation; then Chin Na is more practical from this stand point.

Attacking wrists or fingers are usually very advantageous in close combat countering techniques from being grabbed.

Yes, leverage does add to the power of hyperextending techniques against joints but steady torque combined with sensitive nerve points can also be applied on oneself for practicing where contact is most effective.

This torque and contact doesn't work instantly but can be felt later, yet the leverage with breaking intent should only be used in very serious circumstances and never on training partners.

Striking sensitive nerve points on oneself or a partner isn't something to do on a regular basis as this would eventually cause permanent nerve damage.

However some practice on understanding and attacking nerve points carefully does give a person another option to use depending on the situation and an appreciation of their effectiveness.

[sensei8]

No, I've never broken anyone's wrist, intentionally or unintentionally!! Why? I'm not ever interested in doing that, with anyone. What I am interested in, is to control, if only for a moment, my opponent/attacker/etc; and nothing more.

Having the proper know-how goes a long way whenever it comes to the subject at hand. Moving in concert in ones body movement, allows success with applying any type of wrist control. Yet, on the other hand, moving about haphazardly invites nothing but chaos because the opposite occurs. Instead of you controlling, you're being controlled in once fashion or another.

Applying a wrist type hold one oneself, imho, teaches nothing effectively because the self either allows or denies the technique(s) at ones own suggestion and willingness.

[Alan Armstrong]

Personally I'm all for controlling the opponent (if possible) than trading blows.

My experiment was just thought provoking, I did try the techniques three times, not to brake my wrist but to see if the technique was effective or not from an equal strength point of view.

The attacking hand (in the experiment) had no apparent damage; whereas the attacked hand is still feeling the after effects weeks later.

Could be (as the saying goes) "that the best defence is a good offense" in this case anyway! Or "Stupid is as stupid does" sums it up better!

[bushido_man96]

Never had a broken wrist or broken one, not yet anyways. I'm sure when the adrenaline is coursing through the veins, it would be quite easy to break another's wrist with two hands, given the technique is applied properly.

[Alan Armstrong]

Many people break their wrists very easily (accidentally) when they fall, as they have never trained themselves in any type of break fall.

Also people that don't participate in any kind of sport that strengthens the wrists, are very likely to damage their wrists in a trip and fall situation.

[Kusotare]

You really need to get some friends to play with!