Is there such a thing as "real" karate?

[Wado Heretic]

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I would state that I do not take their criticism seriously; I just offered it as an example where people have called my karate "fake" and the fact you cannot let it get to you. These days I just say I do Karate, but use the kata of Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu, because it eliminates expectations.

I would estimate my karate to be around 60% Shorin-Ryu based on the fact I use the kata and the kihon-waza. Then 10-15% Wado-Ryu due to kihon-waza I use and my use of Gyakunage Kata, Tantodori no Kata, and Idori no Kata. I incorporate most of the Judo Katamewaza, barring those that rely on the jacket or I consider too "loose" for use outside Judo, and Kōdōkan Goshin Jutsu Kata. The remainder is made up of what I consider kick-boxing essentials, and some drills of my own invention based on my kick-boxing experience. Aside from that there is some self-taught leg wrestling, and some neck-cranks, that I have road tested through competition and sparring, and grappling fundamentals such as sprawling and the technical stand up.

So their argument does have the merit in that I use a lot of material from outside conventional Shorin-Ryu, that you definitely will not see in dojo in Okinawa. With that said; 50% of my practice, and what I teach is kata based, and thus the majority of what we do is derived from the tradition of Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu. That being my counter to their argument.

[MatsuShinshii]

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I would state that I do not take their criticism seriously; I just offered it as an example where people have called my karate "fake" and the fact you cannot let it get to you. These days I just say I do Karate, but use the kata of Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu, because it eliminates expectations.

I would estimate my karate to be around 60% Shorin-Ryu based on the fact I use the kata and the kihon-waza. Then 10-15% Wado-Ryu due to kihon-waza I use and my use of Gyakunage Kata, Tantodori no Kata, and Idori no Kata. I incorporate most of the Judo Katamewaza, barring those that rely on the jacket or I consider too "loose" for use outside Judo, and Kōdōkan Goshin Jutsu Kata. The remainder is made up of what I consider kick-boxing essentials, and some drills of my own invention based on my kick-boxing experience. Aside from that there is some self-taught leg wrestling, and some neck-cranks, that I have road tested through competition and sparring, and grappling fundamentals such as sprawling and the technical stand up.

So their argument does have the merit in that I use a lot of material from outside conventional Shorin-Ryu, that you definitely will not see in dojo in Okinawa. With that said; 50% of my practice, and what I teach is kata based, and thus the majority of what we do is derived from the tradition of Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu. That being my counter to their argument.

As I said I am an extreme traditionalist in terms of old school and years ago I would have told you that your art was not traditional in the terms of how you teach it. However there has been a surge in instructors trying to get back to the old school roots and discover the original intent of the Kata and most are utilizing what is readily available to them as the old ways were lost.

Over the years I have come to realize that incorporating Jujutsu, Judo and other grappling arts is due to the fact that they can not find the original Tegumi techniques and applications and this has become a substitute.

If the reason that you and others do this is to give your students a more well rounded method to deal with the different levels of combat I will not berate you for your efforts but instead commend you for it.

It's unfortunate that so many arts lost the original intent (combat) while transitioning to the now accepted modern methods of teaching the arts. However I commend any instructor trying to give their students knowledge that can and will help them to deal with today's scenarios. God knows the grappling craze is the latest and greatest. Why would you not want to teach them something that addresses this?

That and for a traditionalist like me you seem to place the main importance on the Kata which is were my heart lies.

Do you utilize the Kata for teaching your students to Fight/Defend themselves? Due you teach the applications (Bunkai)?

If you do you are probably more "traditional" than most.

[Wado Heretic]

Yes; the kata are the primary source for self-defence practice, and I place emphasis on people learning the process of Bunkai, as well as teaching "applications". My approach is for applications to be mechanisms of learning flexible principles, and ideas. I tend to see what I teach in addition as an "alphabet" of sorts; a way of understanding the language of kata.

Edit: I would add that what I have taken from Wado-Ryu and elsewhere, I do adapt and experiment with to make fit the "Shorin-Ryu" paradigm. I do not just lift what I like and throw it into a syllabus; it has to pass pressure testing, and fit the big picture, before I consider it something to be taught.

[JR 137]

If I'm doing it, it's real karate. If I'm not doing it, it's fake karate

In all seriousness, far too many people think what they're doing is right and everyone else is wrong. If it addresses your needs, it's real karate. If it doesn't, it's someone else's real karate.

To paraphrase Ed Parker, when fist meets flesh, it's real karate (I added the "real" in there).

[sensei8]

Traditional has its merits, however, non-traditional training across the board, also has its merits. As much as I'm a strict traditionalist across the board, I'm aware that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Thereby, I skin the cat as often as I feel it's necessary!!

[JR 137]

Traditional has its merits, however, non-traditional training across the board, also has its merits. As much as I'm a strict traditionalist across the board, I'm aware that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Thereby, I skin the cat as often as I feel it's necessary!!

Why are you skinning cats? Do you have something against them? What did they ever do to you?

[sensei8]

Traditional has its merits, however, non-traditional training across the board, also has its merits. As much as I'm a strict traditionalist across the board, I'm aware that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Thereby, I skin the cat as often as I feel it's necessary!!

Why are you skinning cats? Do you have something against them? What did they ever do to you?

ROFL

Why are you skinning cats?

I have to do something in my spare time!

Do you have something against them?

No...I tolerate them both with as much fortitude as I can possibly extend towards them. I'm a dog person.

What did they ever do to you?

The list is both long and distinguished! They do what cats do, and for my wife, I've demonstrated a long standing affable acceptance!!

[bushido_man96]

All instructors have a different approach to teaching, and students have different approaches to learning. Some people like the drill-sergeant style instructors, and some don't. That doesn't make one style any more real or fake than the other.

You mentioned the stress factor of training. If you don't enjoy training, then you probably won't do it. At the same time, you don't want to be pampered to the point that your training won't be effective.

It sounds to me that what you have at your school is a pretty good arrangement, and it works well for you because it sounds like you are pretty self-motivated.

Fear not, you are doing real Karate.

[shortyafter]

Hi all. OP here. Thanks for all of your insight and comments. This made me feel better about my karate.

All instructors have a different approach to teaching, and students have different approaches to learning. Some people like the drill-sergeant style instructors, and some don't. That doesn't make one style any more real or fake than the other.

You mentioned the stress factor of training. If you don't enjoy training, then you probably won't do it. At the same time, you don't want to be pampered to the point that your training won't be effective.

It sounds to me that what you have at your school is a pretty good arrangement, and it works well for you because it sounds like you are pretty self-motivated.

Fear not, you are doing real Karate.

Thank you especially for this one. I feel like I have found a good balance with this school. As others have said, I have followed my heart.

Now I can stop worrying about if I'm doing karate and start focusing on learning the karate I am doing.