Kyokushin versus Shotokan kumite

[hammer]

The above is a pretty relevant example of the pulsing of sports karate versus the more set approach of Knockdown karate. The speed was the deciding factor, for which pulsing can help, and the kyokushin fighter did not expect the kick at all. He did not have his chin tucked in, nor did he bring his hands up in any sort of defence; he failed to react at all, and the kick might as well have been a sucker-punch.

We don't do Ushiro mawashi geri that often in class, but that kick and defending against it is something that is a part of Kyokushin (at least at the dojo I train in). The Kyokushin fighter in this case should of at least had his hands up to block the kick...and if he were fast enough (which some practitioners are) he would have moved with the shoulder turn as well.

In addition, what was with the Kyokushin fighter's hands going up and down? All the Shotokan fighter had to do was wait for the Kyokushin fighter's right hand to go up and then execute the kick as his hand was going back down.

I would not have had the speed to defend or evade that kick though...

[Wado Heretic]

Was not intended so much as a critique of Kyokushin, as much as a demonstration of how speed can be a deciding factor; also how the "pulsing" which is popular in point kumite can assist with kick-shock to generate speed and power.

That particular fighter made many blunders leading to his one kick loss:

1. Did not threaten his opponent at all with his hands.

2. Tried to slowly close the distance, and did not control it at all with any offence.

3. Did not have the chin tucked in.

However; his opponent made similar mistakes. The Shotokan exponent also demonstrated no range control, and had a posture poor for taking a real blow. The kick was brilliantly timed, but saved him from his own inadequacies.

Hopefully this better explains the point of the video; to demonstrate how pulsing can be effective as a tool in full contact. It was not so much about the styles, as to illustrate the major difference in fighting posture between point and knockdown kumite.

[Age-Uke]

I think the debate sizzles out to "who's has the better prowess"

I always look at MMA as the gold standard. The thing to remember is that both arts have been tested at the highest levels in MMA.

Granted there was some supplemental training going on, but...

GSP trained I believe he still does) in Kyokushin.

Lyoto Machida trains Shotokan and won the light heavyweight championship and contended the middleweight belt. His brother (using Shotokan) has also done really well.

Karate as a whole has proved itself.

[sensei8]

You know, imho, it's the individual that versus an individual, and not the style. The style is the vehicle in which the individual arrives in; how the individual drives said vehicle is based on that individual, and not the style.

[bushido_man96]

You know, imho, it's the individual that versus an individual, and not the style. The style is the vehicle in which the individual arrives in; how the individual drives said vehicle is based on that individual, and not the style.

That is very well put, Bob.

[TawanTheTiger]

Old topic but I recently switched to Kyokushin from Wado Ryu as there’s not enough sparring for me in Wado, I also went to Shotokan. However I also do Muay Thai and kickboxing so the Shotokan or Wado Ryu styles were just not enough for me, I’m a second brown belt and I’m loving Kyokushin. The lower belts I sparred are better than kata focussed senior grade wado and shotokan practitioners I’ve also fought. I love kumite so Kyokushin is my dream style! Maybe if they fought one on one and the shotokan athlete had a background in Muay Thai, boxing or kickboxing it would even things out. Wado made me realize speed is for scoring points not putting someone on the ground, plus no other styles I know of uses conditioning like Kyokushin. At the same time Shotokan would smoke us in kata and possibly point sparring. I’m speaking from experience as an ex sport’s Kartate competitor. It’s nice to use knees and low kicks very much like Muay Thai, Shotokan and Wado have impressive kicks but I never felt more than a tap from the mawashi geri jodan.