Makiwara Training

[Shizentai]

Hitting a person in the head with bear knuckles can usually exspect only to hit about six to ten good shots.

With every punch becoming more painful to the knuckles than the last.

...

The forehead is a far bigger mass of bone than knuckles, therefore some boxers intentionally use their forehead (with this type of logic) to try to damage the opponent's knuckles while in a fight.

yeah, like I said, I don't even bother striking hard surfaces in places that aren't sensitive. I don't think I've ever attacked someoene's forehead. Besides, it's hard (pun intended) for short people to reach.

In all of this stuff, I'm forced to use my father's analogy (he's a self employed mechanic)...

Use the tool for the job; a great tool is useless if you're not using it right.

There's not much point in punching the skull. The skull is too hard. But there's a great point to punch the side of the jaw, under the eyes, and the nose.

Agreed.

Thrown correctly, an elbow will inflict far more damage to a skull (side of the head) and less damage to yourself. IMO the elbow's a better tool for the job. But that tool isn't always available either. Trade off is you've got to get closer.

I think what you're saying here is correct, but is not inconsistent with what I have said either. Yes, there are better ways to generate more power, but often times you don't need 100% power to take someone out. Even if punches to the head and instep kicks to the head aren't the "perfect" surface, they still can and do knock people out... all the time. Why? because the temple is sensitive to jolts, the "reset button" in the back of the head, and the side of the neck as well. The face too. I know this because I am a small female who doesn't condition much . If I can KO someone with good target, it probably requires less power than you'd think. Don't just take my word for it though Here is a video of people accidentally KOing using one single instep or seiken strike with bare knuckles:

[Alan Armstrong]

Has anyone here considered that makiwara practice is counterproductive?

A board planted in the ground with some rope around the top, is an inexpensive training apparatus but is it just used out of tradition?

Is the makawa out dated technology or is it so perfect that any changes to it's design would be taking a step backwards?

Do sports/science medicine officials recommend or condone using makiwara board training?

[Wastelander]

Counter-productive? Not when used for its intended purpose--developing structure and power generation. If you use it just for hand conditioning, then yes, it can definitely be counter-productive. As it stands, I have found nothing that teaches proper structure for power generation as efficiently as makiwara training. Sure, you can develop power plenty of ways--mitts, heavy bags, resistance bands, etc.--but none of them teach you the technique of it like the makiwara does. As far as its design being obsolete, I have seen a number of alternative construction methods for makiwara that work well using modern materials. The key to the makiwara is its spring action, and I have seen people achieve this with everything from skis to actual springs. How it's made isn't all that important, provided it does what it is intended to do.

[MatsuShinshii]

Has anyone here considered that makiwara practice is counterproductive?

A board planted in the ground with some rope around the top, is an inexpensive training apparatus but is it just used out of tradition?

Is the makawa out dated technology or is it so perfect that any changes to it's design would be taking a step backwards?

Do sports/science medicine officials recommend or condone using makiwara board training?

Counter productive? It is very productive. It conditions the bodies weapons, it teaches you how to strike effectively, teaches proper body mechanics to generate power... counterproductive?????????????????

No it is not used strictly out of tradition. Its primary focus is as I described above. Yes some opt to use a heavy bag but to be 100% honest, it has its uses, but I do not feel that it can replace the Makiwara.

No disrespect to you or sports/science, but who cares what they think? If you ask a room full of scientists a question you will get varying degrees of answers and less that 10% will agree 100%.

This has been practiced for hundreds of years by millions of MAist's and if done properly only benefits the practitioner.

Actually I do remember a TV show, sports/science or something along those lines, that studied the effect and showed the benefit. Its called wolves law or something along those lines. They where showing how a human being can break what seems unbreakable. The concentration was on martial artists and Tameshiwari. They discussed the training leading up to actual breaks and the science behind it and proved that it does strengthen the bones by making them denser.

My question is... if it benefits the practitioner why would you not utilize the Makiwara in your training? Traditional or not it's an effective training tool.

[MatsuShinshii]

Counter-productive? Not when used for its intended purpose--developing structure and power generation. If you use it just for hand conditioning, then yes, it can definitely be counter-productive. As it stands, I have found nothing that teaches proper structure for power generation as efficiently as makiwara training. Sure, you can develop power plenty of ways--mitts, heavy bags, resistance bands, etc.--but none of them teach you the technique of it like the makiwara does. As far as its design being obsolete, I have seen a number of alternative construction methods for makiwara that work well using modern materials. The key to the makiwara is its spring action, and I have seen people achieve this with everything from skis to actual springs. How it's made isn't all that important, provided it does what it is intended to do.

Agreed. Well put.

[strangepair03]

I personally love training on the makiwara. I try not to let a day go by without at least 50 punches on each side. I know a lot of guys that like the big calloused knuckles, but that's not for me.

I also find hitting it is the best stress reliever I know!!!

[sensei8]

I just can't see my MA training life without the Makawara; just way to important in my life!!

[LLLEARNER]

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_4_5/154-2008521-8417243?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=makiwara&sprefix=Makaw%2Caps%2C284&crid=3B5UPIBU6ZJDL

https://www.amazon.com/Ace-Martial-Arts-Supply-Makiwara/dp/B00PSOJZ04/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1481150380&sr=8-12&keywords=makiwara

https://www.amazon.com/ACE-Large-Vinyl-Clapper-Makiwara/dp/B003AO6U5C/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1481150380&sr=8-13&keywords=makiwara

I am considering a makiwara for my basement or garage. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these?

[strangepair03]

I have one of the Shureido ones, to me it is worth the money.

http://www.shureidousa.com/training/makiwara.html

[Wastelander]

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_4_5/154-2008521-8417243?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=makiwara&sprefix=Makaw%2Caps%2C284&crid=3B5UPIBU6ZJDL

https://www.amazon.com/Ace-Martial-Arts-Supply-Makiwara/dp/B00PSOJZ04/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1481150380&sr=8-12&keywords=makiwara

https://www.amazon.com/ACE-Large-Vinyl-Clapper-Makiwara/dp/B003AO6U5C/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1481150380&sr=8-13&keywords=makiwara

I am considering a makiwara for my basement or garage. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these?

I'm afraid these are really no good for makiwara training--they don't have the right type of resistance. All they are good for is making a nice clacking sound and doing a little knuckle conditioning. I always recommend people build a proper makiwara instead of resorting to these.