Makiwara Training

[Wastelander]

The concern about developing ugly callouses on the hands is one I have certainly heard on a number of occasions, but I don't personally find it to be much of a reason not to work with the makiwara. After all, the makiwara is for feedback, and developing structure and power. The conditioning is just a byproduct of hitting something that resists your strikes.

From an historical perspective, it's important to remember that the vast majority of karateka were nobles or peacekeapers, in a culture where formality and politeness were paramount. They considered scars and callouses to be ugly, and brutish, so they were known to remove the callouses developed by martial arts training (both empty handed and with weapons). This is something that is even more easily done, today, with all of the cosmetic tools and products we have available.

Additionally, one can add enough padding to the makiwara to take the edge off, without dampening the spring effect. I find that the sole of a foam flip-flop sandal will work, as will a piece of cheap martial arts floor mats. Any more than that and it starts to cause the makiwara to feel "squishy," which defeats the purpose.

Between the added padding and the cosmetic treatment, people can use the makiwara effectively without making their hands look like Higaonna Morio or Shinjo Kiyohide. I hit the makiwara regularly, and barely do anything to take care of my hands, and yet I still keep the callous to a minimum. I also haven't seen any evidence to support the "makiwara causes arthritis" claim that I often hear, when the makiwara is used as intended, rather than for overzealous hand conditioning. A number of Okinawan karate masters hit the makiwara on a regular basis, and have done so for decades, while still becoming masters of Shodo (calligraphy) and otherwise maintaining the health of their hands.

[Alan Armstrong]

Punching with knuckles is proving to be less effective than palm strikes.

Females in self defence classes are often taught palm strikes and not punching techniques.

Punching another person in the face has it's risks of punching in to teeth.

I don't recall boxers ever training on makiwara boads, perhaps it doesn't seem worthwhile enough for them to train with them.

[JackD]

I've just built mine and I'm feeling very smug about it. It is a vastly different experience between striking that and the wall mounted version I've just replaced.

[Wastelander]

@Alan Armstrong - I'm not sure I would say that "punching with knuckles is proving to be less effective than palm strikes." I don't believe there are any real statistics for that--we'd have to decide on what "effective" was with regard to the strike, and how to measure it. That said, I am absolutely in favor of palm strikes for everyone when it comes to striking to the head with linear motions. "Fight bite" is a real problem to consider, as is injuring your hand with a lot of bone-on-bone contact with the skull. Punches to the body are great, though, and there are instances where I would punch to the neck or head in a bareknuckle situation.

@JackD - I'm glad you're enjoying it! They are a great tool to have!

[sensei8]

I can't subscribe to the believe, fact or fiction, that punches with the knuckles are ineffective. Why? The ineffectiveness lies within the individual; either you are or you aren't...this is what I believe!! For example, if I was to read that a test was conducted with 100 MAists, through real-life or simulated, from a widely respected source that punches with the knuckles are ineffective, I'd simply say that the majority of those tested were, they themselves, ineffective in the delivery of said technique.

Shindokan is 85% hands, and we punch/strike with our knuckles, and while I might sound bias towards Shindokan, and I'm not, nonetheless, I'm quite effective with what we're discussing in this topic.

[bushido_man96]

Boxers fight with gloves on, so they don't concern themselves with toughening up the knuckles.

[Alan Armstrong]

I said "Punches are less effective than palm strikes" and not that punches are ineffective.

My statement is related to women in a self defense context. of course there are women that can break boards but do they use their fist or do they use a palm strike?

[Shizentai]

As someone who practices Okinawan karate, I work with a makiwara fairly regularly. That said, I know that not all styles, or even all schools, make use of makiwara training. I also know that many who do use makiwara don't use them the way they are intended. I'm curious how many folks here at KF train with the makiwara, and how/why?

Every JKA & ISKF club I've seen trains on makiwara. I don't usually see kids doing it though. Usually we have them do knuckle push-ups instead when their joints are still soft, until they are done growing.

Punching with knuckles is proving to be less effective than palm strikes.

Females in self defence classes are often taught palm strikes and not punching techniques.

Punching another person in the face has it's risks of punching in to teeth.

I can't subscribe to the believe, fact or fiction, that punches with the knuckles are ineffective. Why? The ineffectiveness lies within the individual; either you are or you aren't...this is what I believe!! For example, if I was to read that a test was conducted with 100 MAists, through real-life or simulated, from a widely respected source that punches with the knuckles are ineffective, I'd simply say that the majority of those tested were, they themselves, ineffective in the delivery of said technique.

Shindokan is 85% hands, and we punch/strike with our knuckles, and while I might sound bias towards Shindokan, and I'm not, nonetheless, I'm quite effective with what we're discussing in this topic.

I agree with sensei8 and Wastelander on this one. These are not hard and fast rules. It depends on multiple factors. It also has little to do with the sex of the MAist thank you very much . The way I was taught, in an ideal situation striking surface should depend on 3 main things (though also a variety of other situation-specific factors):

1. target surface:

- a. how hard or soft is the target (ex: skull=hard, belly=soft)

- b. how sensitive is the target (ex: bridge of nose more sensitive than ribs)

2. strike surface:

- a. how hard is the attacking surface (ex: knuckle=hard, palm=soft)

- b. how sensitive is the attacking surface (ex: heel less sensitive than instep, conditioned is less sensitive than unconditioned)

3. area of contact between the two

- a. Is target area small or large? (ex: eye vs. solar plexus)

- b. Is striking surface small or large? (ex: ippon ken vs. teisho)

Finding the balance in these three areas minimizes the ratio of damage to you vs. damage to your attacker.

I like to use soft-surface attacks with hard targets, BUT I only bother attacking a hard surface if it is very sensitive. For this reason, I find teisho very comfortable for face strikes, but prefer seiken for belly strikes. I punch seiken to face too though, because I have conditioned my knuckles to not be sensitive, and because it protects my fingers better.

Surfaces I have not conditioned are sensitive, so I don't tend to use these for strikes unless the force I am applying on them is small, delivered to a sensitive target, or dispersed over a wide area of my body. For example, I always use the ball of my foot for mawashigeri to the belly, but using haisoku mawashigeri to the face doesn't hurt me, because I don't need to deliver as much force to someone's head to knock them out. Also, haisoku mawashi geri changes the area over which the technique is effective in a favorable direction. To land the ball of the foot where you want it, the kick needs to be precise; the target has to be within about 4 inches of where you sense they will be. Using haisoku expands the error distance to about 2 feet (distance from knee to metatarsals), so even if your opponent goes forward or back, it's harder to avoid.

I don't recall boxers ever training on makiwara boads, perhaps it doesn't seem worthwhile enough for them to train with them.

My guess would be both a different cultural origin, and difference in trajectory of strikes may be at play here. Most boxing strikes send the hand traveling in an arc motion while the attacker is light on his feet. Makiwara focus on training a way of attacking that relies on kinetic linking to the ground (being very grounded), with the hand itself traveling in less of an arced trajectory (though the rest of the body does indeed arc). It kind of makes sense that makiwara are flat for this reason, and that boxing bags are rounded.

[Alan Armstrong]

Hitting a person in the head with bear knuckles can usually exspect only to hit about six to ten good shots.

With every punch becoming more painful to the knuckles than the last.

This is talking from my personsl experience, that will differ depending on the circumstance of where the knuckles make contact with the skull and how hard both of the surfaces are; of course excluding other unpredictable variables.

Makiwara practice consists of one straight punch at a time, whereas boxer use a combination of different punches from different angles.

A boxing uppercut on a makiwara wouldn't be practical; that's one small reason of many why boxers practice on a cylindrical bag.

The forehead is a far bigger mass of bone than knuckles, therefore some boxers intentionally use their forehead (with this type of logic) to try to damage the opponent's knuckles while in a fight.

Makawara training is a way to focus alot of energy in to a small area; as the reverse punch is a favorite karate technique, practicing punches on a makawra board makes perfect sense.

[JR 137]

In all of this stuff, I'm forced to use my father's analogy (he's a self employed mechanic)...

Use the tool for the job; a great tool is useless if you're not using it right.

There's not much point in punching the skull. The skull is too hard. But there's a great point to punch the side of the jaw, under the eyes, and the nose. Thrown correctly, an elbow will inflict far more damage to a skull (side of the head) and less damage to yourself. IMO the elbow's a better tool for the job. But that tool isn't always available either. Trade off is you've got to get closer.

A well conditioned spear hand is a better tool for the spleen or liver than a punch. But that well conditioned tool may not exist for you (it doesn't exist for me either).

People like the instep or even ball of the foot for a roundhouse. I think a shin is far better - far more rigid with less give than the instep and ankle it's connected to. But you give up some range.

Use the best tool. But if you think about it at the moment of truth, you won't have the chance. Make the tool muscle memory. Make the tool selection an unconscious thought (mu shin). How do you do that? Practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more.