WC William Cheung vs WT Emin Boztepe

[Tempest]

It wasn't the fact that it was real that makes it look amateurish, it is the fact that the guy doing the attacking used a simple technique, executed... ok, against a guy who clearly had no clue how to keep his balance in a fight, and was probably caught by surprise to boot, took him to the ground and then did some weak, sorta kinda ground and pound from an actually pretty loose side control. Once again, the guy on the bottom had not a clue what to do. It wasn't a matter of being past his prime, he just layed there and got beat up with no clue how to intelligently resist.

[Alan Armstrong]

Emin was not in agreement with Williams claims to the Wing Chun throne, neither were other long established Wing Chun societies.

Fosan In China (birthplace of modern Wing Chun) has about two hundred WC schools, not likely to be passed over so easily.

As William was an Ip Man student and was a younger student, there are many other students before and older than William.

Chinese traditions would not allow for Ip Man to pass his legacy over to a none family member, especially when there are living descents capable of the task.

Emin had popular opinion on his side, also as he is far more of a charismatic character than William, he was holding a winning hand and played it perfectly.

I'm very aware of both martial artists, there Wing Chun styles are very different from one another, yet they both share a place in the development and spreading Wing Chun's popularity further in to the western world.

[Alan Armstrong]

Response to Tempest:

A "surprise attack" from someone like Emin (that is claimed to have had 300 fights) in Williams seminar is bound to look out of place. This isn't the sort of thing that happens on a regular basis.

The way Emin beat up William is exactly the way Emin trains and fights; get it over with no matter how unflashy it looks.

[Tempest]

Ok, just to be clear, Emin is the guy on top beating the other guy to a pulp correct?

If so, since I didn't see all of the seminar, and am unaware of the surrounding politics, I am only able to judge based on what I saw.

What I saw was some competitive but rudimentary Judo, followed by some sort of strikes on the ground that seemed more designed to humiliate and annoy than injure.

I would REALLY hope that, based on what you have described as the surrounding circumstances, this did not take place in the US, because if it did then then Emin risked going to jail, or at the least facing a lawsuit. There can be no claim of self defense, and if William, I guess is the other guy, wants to push it there really cannot be a claim of mutual combat as based on what I saw he crossed a long distance and attacked. If this was not a pre-arranged meetup between the 2 men, such as a sporting or sparring context, then it looks an awful lot like a crime.

[TJ-Jitsu]

Response to Tempest:

A "surprise attack" from someone like Emin (that is claimed to have had 300 fights) in Williams seminar is bound to look out of place. This isn't the sort of thing that happens on a regular basis.

 

The way Emin beat up William is exactly the way Emin trains and fights; get it over with no matter how unflashy it looks.

We're not saying that it wasnt flashy- we're saying that he appeared to have no idea whatsoever what he was doing.... because he didnt. There wasnt much "get it over quick" from what I saw. There were two guys on the ground with aboslutely no idea what they were doing.

[Alan Armstrong]

In an interview, Emin stated that William said that he would fight anyone, in any place and at any time; Emin took him up on it.

Yes, it looks very much like an assault, this is what makes this incident so controversial.

Emin was the guy on top.

I don't agree Emin's method of attacking William in a surprised attack, this is showing a poor sense of character. Emin stated something like "I couldn't stand it any more"

[Tempest]

We're not saying that it wasnt flashy- we're saying that he appeared to have no idea whatsoever what he was doing.... because he didnt. There wasnt much "get it over quick" from what I saw. There were two guys on the ground with aboslutely no idea what they were doing.

See, I need to start being more direct. Like this guy...

Seriously though, as a martial artist I cannot condone something that could be considered felony assault, especially when it is not even a good technical demo.

[Alan Armstrong]

Emin; before studying Wing Chun, he also practiced, Karate, Muay Thai, Judo and Wrestling.

The fight between Emin and William took place during a seminar in Germany (30 years ago) in 1986.

Emin was 24 years old when he attacked William, as he was about 46 years old.

William's claim to fame was to have introduced Bruce Lee to Wing Chun in 1953.

Emin's claim to fame was to beat up William.

Emin also Challenged the entire Gracie family, another one of his claim's to fame.

[TJ-Jitsu]

"Challenging the Gracie family" is hardly a claim to fame. The problem with this is that he didn't fight anyone. The Gracie's did. They went everywhere and anywhere and fought the world over. They had an open challenge-all emin would need to do is show up... it he didn't and I think rational people can deduce why after looking as his fight.

[Alan Armstrong]

"Challenging the Gracie family" is hardly a claim to fame. The problem with this is that he didn't fight anyone. The Gracie's did. They went everywhere and anywhere and fought the world over. They had an open challenge-all emin would need to do is show up... it he didn't and I think rational people can deduce why after looking as his fight.

open challenge on their terms! That rational people can deduce why!