Kenshin-Kan and goju ryu difference ?

[wildbourgman]

So it appears that there are two Kenshin Kan groups, on in Shorin Ryu that I train in and one in Goju. The could be very confusing I guess.

That would be correct, Seiichi Akamine's Goju Ryu Ken-Shin-Kan, and Shorin Ryu Kenshin Kan under Fuse Kisei.

I would suggest 'Kenshin' is the dojo name in this respect rather than a style.

It's quite a common name written as either Shinken or Kenshin it mean "true/pure- fist/blade".

K

I guess that in the case of Fuse Kisei the "true/pure" part of his dojo name is because he has familial ties to the Matsumora's thru Hohan Soken.

[Zaine]

So it appears that there are two Kenshin Kan groups, on in Shorin Ryu that I train in and one in Goju. The could be very confusing I guess.

That would be correct, Seiichi Akamine's Goju Ryu Ken-Shin-Kan, and Shorin Ryu Kenshin Kan under Fuse Kisei.

I would suggest 'Kenshin' is the dojo name in this respect rather than a style.

It's quite a common name written as either Shinken or Kenshin it mean "true/pure- fist/blade".

K

I guess that in the case of Fuse Kisei the "true/pure" part of his dojo name is because he has familial ties to the Matsumora's thru Hohan Soken.

That's possible. My instructor can trace his lineage to Kise, through Gagni and Coffman. There are a lot of rumors that surround the reason that Kise went to Kenshin Kan. It seems most likely that it is due to wanting to evolve the system, though other rumors exist, mostly bad. The most popular one is that Soken didn't want to hand over the system to him, and so Kise was forced to create his own system. This rumor appears to have come to being around the time that Coffman and Kise had their own falling out, so I don't lend that much credit.

In all likeliness, Kise felt the need to make changes to the system, and in the end the changes were great enough that he felt the need to rename it. Can't really know without talking to Kise himself though.

[wildbourgman]

In all likeliness, Kise felt the need to make changes to the system, and in the end the changes were great enough that he felt the need to rename it. Can't really know without talking to Kise himself though.

From what I've been told Kise brought in some things from Shorinji that was not in Soken's curriculum. Coffman seems like a straight shooter on some of his rants that I've but I heard that there was more to the story than he writes. Personally I don't think it's proper decorum to publish some of the things Coffman wrote even though I agree with many of them.

I have a funny feeling that Isao Kise (Fuse's son) will put his mark on the system with even more changes. I dealt with that in Shotokan also where your Sensei goes to a camp and comes back with changes or adjustments where he was taught differently, possibly wrong or the hierarchy just decided that something was ineffective after decades of practicing it that way.

To tie this in to the original question about Goju Ryu and Kenshin Kan Goju I'm sure this happens in all styles. There will be variations. I guess it's respectable to just create your own federation and teach it your way if you just can't live with the curriculum of the particular style your in. The other options are to just deal with something you feel is wrong or stay and sneak in your own techniques and practices which both seem unethical.

When I first started training there were a lot of martial arts charlatans in the United States and there was also arrogance from systems like Shotokan due to the fact that there was so many obvious dojos basically committing fraud . The more I see now, the more I like. I see real karate and I see outreach between styles that will only enhance martial arts. Even a McDojo with proper guidance to the franchises and a proper curriculum can be much better than the charlatans of the 1970's and 1980's. You literally had people buying a karate book, some video tapes, a gi, a black belt and watch Bruce lee movies before setting up dojos. People were taking this like it was real and they were getting hurt. I've seen it and I've heard story after story laying this out, it was crazy.

I really think we are on a better footing and going in the right direction. Having a traceable lineage doesn't mean good karate, but it makes it a whole lot easier for the sensei to show his root system has a real foundation.