ninjanurse Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 As a follower of Yeshua and a martial artist, I find no incompatabilities between the two simply because I put God first in my "do". "Do" is simply a word that means "way" and my "do" and your "do" are different and personal. The "do" of martial arts has an underlying philosophy that strives to help one know oneself and be able to overcome the selfish and self centered tendancies that we all have. Is this not one of the same messages that Yeshua taught-to put yourself aside and focus on others needs rather than your own? I agree with Hobbitbob that certain "sects" of Christianity have reduced everything to a Good and Bad dualism and that they sometimes get so caught up in the traditions and ideals of their own demoninations that they forget what it is really all about. Religion, like martial arts, is a personal journey and if you are well grounded in your faith you can be assured that God will be pleased with how you live and grow while you are traveling. "A Black Belt is only the beginning."Heidi-A student of the artsTae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnishttp://the100info.tumblr.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmy77 Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Here is a link to an article of one person's opinion of Jutsu v. Do. It a good read. http://www.shotokankata.com/Articles/Jutsu.htm "Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft." - Pres. Theodore Roosevelt "You don't have to like it, you just have to do it." - Captain Richard Marcinko, USN, Ret."Do more than what is required of you." - General George S. Patton"If you have to step on someone else to stand tall, then you truely are a small person." - ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_mind_like_water Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I train and teach karate as a jitsu or fighting art. As a Christian, Christ is my way of life karate is not. Anyone else fell this way? Sho-ju mmmm. Jesus Vs Karate. im gona go with Jesus, not only can this dude not be killed, he has ALOT of back-up! this should be on pay-per view Danuall san- "Up you'res OLD man, wax your own DAM cars, im goin out ta get LAID" -Scott https://www.worldkarate.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho-ju Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Thanks for the link jmy77. Practising just the combative aspects of karate (Jutsu) would mean that we are only concerned with the development of effective fighters and that we care little about the characters of those that we train. Would it be OK to teach fighting skills to an individual with a violent nature? Would it be OK to foster those violent attitudes if it meant the individual could be a more effective fighter? What if that individual used their skills on the weak, the elderly, or their spouse? Would that be OK, because they practice ‘jutsu’ and are hence only concerned with the winning of fights, whomever they are against? If the only concern of ‘Jutsu’ is to win fights, then surely using karate for criminal acts is OK, so long as you win? To my mind - and the mind of any decent human being - it is obviously not OK for karate to be used in this way. I think above goes a little too far. That's like saying boxers or wrestlers need to add "do" to their style. As far as teaching violent individuals that's up to the sensei, I'm sure in dojo's around the world violent people are drawn to karate. I’m concerned with my student’s moral behavior but I don’t turn karate into a something its not, a religion. Karate, the way I teach, will help to foster the same ideals that any other organized sport will foster. Realistic training (Jutsu) will force all your weaknesses to the surface. A good Sensei will then help you to overcome those weaknesses, such that you not only become a better fighter, but also a better human being (Do). ‘Jutsu’ is the foundation upon which ‘Do’ is built! To simply concern yourself with fighting, and nothing else, will prevent you from progressing to the higher levels of training. I think this assumption is false. It’s not up to your sensei to help you develop you character, just like it's not up to you football coach to develop you character. Those who remain in karate for any length of time stay because of their nature. I guess it’s the nature vs. nurture argument. I firmly believe that in the world of karate those who stick it out and continue to train were good people to begin with. I'm sure you can name people who's lives were changed by karate but for the most part karateka ordinary people. Besides, if what is being taught in the dojo is not reinforced at home how much "do" is really taking root? As for higher levels of training, I think it depends on why you train. I started to learn karate for self-defence. The better I can defend myself the higher the level of training. MMA fighters are at high levels of training, the best fighters in the world. It depends on your goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho-ju Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I train and teach karate as a jitsu or fighting art. As a Christian, Christ is my way of life karate is not. Anyone else fell this way? Sho-ju mmmm. Jesus Vs Karate. im gona go with Jesus, not only can this dude not be killed, he has ALOT of back-up! this should be on pay-per view A comment like that is not funny, but at least you lived up to your name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbitbob Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 "Mind like Water (mizu no kokoro)" implies a calm mind that reflects the world. This is an honourable aspect to strive for. It is also a very "Christian" veiewpoint (see Theresa of Avila, or the collected writings of St. John of teh Cross.). There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho-ju Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I'm happy to see you have read St. John, but do not forget his warning:A soul may lean upon any knowledge of its own, or any feeling or experience of God, yet, however great this may be, it is very little and far different from what God is; and, in going along this road, a soul is easily led astray, or brought to a standstill, because it will not remain in faith like one that is blind, and faith is its true guide. (Book 2, Chapter 4, Paragraph 3) Among all created things, and things that can be apprehended by the understanding, there is no ladder whereby the understanding can attain to this high Lord. (Book 2, Chapter 8, Paragraph 7) and St. Teresa of Avila:The better he gets to know the greatness of God, the better he comes to realize the misery of his own condition; having now tasted the consolations of God, he sees that earthly things are mere refuse; so, little by little, he withdraws from them and in this way becomes more and more his own master... It must not be understood, however, that all these things take place because once or twice God has granted a soul this favour; it must continue receiving them, for it is from their continuance that all our good proceeds. (p. 91, Fourth Mansions, Chapter 3, Paragraph 9) I have to ask if you have read the above authors or have a basic idea of what they write about? Sho-ju Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho-ju Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Just wanted to clarify my position. Today, a number of people devote their lives to martial arts study primarily for reasons of self-development. Through their practice of the martial arts, they seek to attain some glimpse of the "wisdom of the East" as set forth in the various philosophies of Taoism, Buddhism, and Zen. Karate-do, for example, means the way of karate. It is a journey which begins with the physical and ends with the spirit. The goal is to develop the spirit. How? Through physical karate training. This parallels the path of hatha-yoga with its goal self-purification through physical application. The incorporation of the contemplative, meditative, or philosophical aspects into the martial arts may have evolved as teachers began to see a need for morality in the art. As practitioners became increasingly capable of destruction, some form of control -- some personal means of tempering physical conduct and actions -- became necessary. Hence, moral codes like the Japanese code of bushido evolved. andFor the Christian, using martial arts study for spiritual self-development fails for two reasons. First, from a practical standpoint, there are a variety of other avenues available to the individual wishing to study Eastern culture, thought, or philosophy to formulate a life credo (and without having to break a sweat doing it, either). Second, and more importantly, Asian martial arts philosophy is deeply entwined in Eastern mysticism and religion. As such, it is incompatible with Christian beliefs. However the philosophical and religious aspects of the martial arts are not necessary for developing the physical skills the martial arts student is seeking. thx, http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/a00001.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbitbob Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I'm not going to argue with someone wearing philosophical blinders. Good day! There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar_lover Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 To me. Morals over regligion matter, to me (heh reapeated myself there). Good moyals and being a good,nice and compassante person and being kind. I don't wish to offend regligios people, i respect your beliefs. I one of those people who don't know what higher power is about. But i try and be as kind as possible. My Karate training has helped me aswell, given me focus, conferdence and many other thing. err thats it Peace and love PEACE AND LOVE."When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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