Opinions on Self Taught Martial Arts

[sensei8]

I've never been a great fan of one learning any MA on their own. Why? I believe an instructor is paramount in the learning process because of mistakes people make when they're interpreting how something should be executed.

That's just me!

If one can learn the MA on their own, and what they execute is effective, then I can overlook my concerns. We all learn different ways, and as the old saying goes...

Necessity is the mother of all invention...being self taught can be a necessity that will require the invention of such.

[bushido_man96]

Without a teacher and or at least a training partner, all you would really get is an aerobic workout.

I humbly disagree, I feel that for a person with no experience an who has never been on a fight, and possibly has no ability to visualize this may be more true, but for a person who has experience, has been on a fight, and can visualize quite well, they would get more out of it then an aerobic workout.

I can see both sides here. I think one can practice some concepts on his or her own, but to truly train and get some good results from it, having a partner to train with is the greatest training tool ever. Especially if you don't have an instructor to work with. One can theorize on their own all day long about how to defend a certain attack, but until you have it done to you and see the results of what you thought would work, all you have is theory.

This is how I see it. If one has to train on their own, that person has to be able to really pay extra special attention to the little details involved in techniques. This person has to be able to critique himself or herself more so than someone who gets good feedback. This person will need to watch as many demonstration videos as possible, and read as many descriptions as possible, and look at lots of pictures if possible, to really get a good indication of how the body should perform the technique. I honestly believe the next thing they need is a good training partner. You can train a lot on your own, and you can visualize all you want, but the first time an attack is thrown in earnest is going to be a real eye-opening experience if all that person has done is train by themselves.

Lastly, this person should try to seek out seminars or instructors that would be willing to answer any questions they might have over different techniques or concepts.

Is it possible? I do think so. It is definitely a longer road to hoe.

[Alan Armstrong]

Self taught, training alone, that person will ultimately mis out on the experience and transferred qualities a teacher can offer.

Repetitive techniques practiced with an experienced teacher is simply irreplaceable.

Techniques practiced constantly wrong alone or with another novice no matter how determined, will develope bad habits, that will be almost impossible to correct later.

There is no real substitute to learning martial arts other than with a master. Someone with at least thirty years experience would be an asset. Or someone highly dedicated as a martial artist with fewer years experience is OK also. Or there are those that come from a family backgroud of martial arts and are young, still would qualify as a master; in my eyes.

I have seen many practice boxing with experienced boxers and some get the boxing idea eventually but the majority don't. Could be because only a few want to learn how to fight and many others just want to burn fat and get in to shape.

Having said all that, videos presented by masters outweigh being taught by inexperienced martial art instructors.

[CTTKDKing]

So I can see both sides of this, and what I really think it comes down to is the mentality of the practitioner. I don't recommend someone with no experience learn from online videos or books unless there's no other alternative, but if a person with no alternative options has the drive, I think they could learn quite a bit in this way. Now they might not be the picture perfect traditional martial artist with flawless katas/poomse, but they could definitely learn a thing or two about basic self defense. Now again, they might not be perfectly executed one step sparring techniques, but they can learn places to strike, ways to avoid dangerous situations, and some basic strikes and some kicks that if practiced on a bag, target or other appropriate medium, could be made effective enough to use if needed. The mentality of the person needs to be that they try these techniques in every way they can think of to find what's effective for their body type, height, weight, etc. If approached in this way, then I would imagine they could learn enough to be efficient in self defense.

On another side of this, as a semi-experienced practitioner (about 12 years now) I often supplement my training, more for ideas than anything else, with online videos. Guys on YouTube like Jake Mace, or Master Wu of Taekwonwoo, or Master Wong (wing chun and self defense instructor) are fantastic resources for self defense technique ideas, drills for me to bring to my sparring class, supplemental workout lessons/ideas, among other things. I'm coming from the perspective that, I'm a senior student that helps teach every now and again, so seeing how other more experienced instructors from outside my dojo do things, helps me have a rounded perspective when I do teach and also allows me to offer something a little different to our students from what the other assistant instructors offer. I typically take what I find online and then break it apart and reassemble it into a lesson that applied to our school's curriculum.

Sorry for the ramble, but I do think online videos, books, etc can be very useful when properly integrated into someone's training. Working with a good teacher is an irreplaceable experience, but if applied correctly these alternative sources of info are far from useless.

[Luther unleashed]

So I can see both sides of this, and what I really think it comes down to is the mentality of the practitioner. I don't recommend someone with no experience learn from online videos or books unless there's no other alternative, but if a person with no alternative options has the drive, I think they could learn quite a bit in this way. Now they might not be the picture perfect traditional martial artist with flawless katas/poomse, but they could definitely learn a thing or two about basic self defense. Now again, they might not be perfectly executed one step sparring techniques, but they can learn places to strike, ways to avoid dangerous situations, and some basic strikes and some kicks that if practiced on a bag, target or other appropriate medium, could be made effective enough to use if needed. The mentality of the person needs to be that they try these techniques in every way they can think of to find what's effective for their body type, height, weight, etc. If approached in this way, then I would imagine they could learn enough to be efficient in self defense.

On another side of this, as a semi-experienced practitioner (about 12 years now) I often supplement my training, more for ideas than anything else, with online videos. Guys on YouTube like Jake Mace, or Master Wu of Taekwonwoo, or Master Wong (wing chun and self defense instructor) are fantastic resources for self defense technique ideas, drills for me to bring to my sparring class, supplemental workout lessons/ideas, among other things. I'm coming from the perspective that, I'm a senior student that helps teach every now and again, so seeing how other more experienced instructors from outside my dojo do things, helps me have a rounded perspective when I do teach and also allows me to offer something a little different to our students from what the other assistant instructors offer. I typically take what I find online and then break it apart and reassemble it into a lesson that applied to our school's curriculum.

Sorry for the ramble, but I do think online videos, books, etc can be very useful when properly integrated into someone's training. Working with a good teacher is an irreplaceable experience, but if applied correctly these alternative sources of info are far from useless.

Exceptional post! I really like how you approached this argument. The last paragraph is a great ending point!

[guird]

What makes you think boxing or muay thai would be easier to learn alone?

One you have some real experience in the dojo you can work on your own on keeping a few skills sharp, but wihout a

Sparring partner you won't really improve.

Better to just work some general fitness then

[neoravencroft]

I never claimed to say that Muay Thai or Boxing could be learned easier alone, only that it's so regimented that it could be picked up easily if need be.

Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I will keep this all in mind.

[LLLEARNER]

Self taught anything takes much more concentrated effort that guided learning. The consequences can be vastly different depending on what is being learned. Self teaching algebra probably won't have many negative consequences unless your building a skyscraper, but self-teaching martial arts never really lets you get hit or thrown. Incorrect form or posture might be subtle but can have huge long term impact. Joint problems/injury or inefficient strikes or throws.

However; I have supplemented my instruction with other resources, written, pictures, and video. Especially when trying to learn the movements of kata. We all have to do what is necessary to learn and there are some excellent resources available for minimal cost or free. While the resources can be of great quality and be a big help I still take my instruction to be more value.

Teaching yourself boxing will help you get the combinations, fitness, etc. down, but you still don't get hit. That is a big part of boxing. But; every discipline MA or other started with someone teaching themselves.

[Alan Armstrong]

As martial arts is a learned skill, something that we were not born with, instruction is needed.

Quality instruction is paramount. It will enhance progress. Save on getting injured. Will instill positive habits.

Positive habits in training will bring about good results in techniques. Negative habits will interfere with having good results and will hinder progress.

Better not to start something without being informed by someone qualified. Quality advice is paramount.

[Luther unleashed]

My opinion is a bit on the far side on this one but to try and spin it a different way...

The major difference of opinion I think I feel as that I don't actually buy into a great deal of traditional martial arts in the same way as many others. I happen to believe that there are many reasons a person practices the arts. Reasons like art form, health, staying limber, and so on are plenty usable learning in your own. Also, many seem to believe that something like kickboxing/boxing is easier because it's more simple since it's essentially just striking. Well, many applications I have learned for complicated techniques turn these movements into striking. I have learned others but the ones I "believe in" are typically the ones that are turned into striking applications. A simple direct strike is very often better self defense then complicated wrist locks or arm locks and so on. In this way I don't see karate being different then boxing and so on. Sure there will always be some adrenaline and difference from a fight but in the end NOTHING can prepare you 100% for a fight like a fight. Many many traditional martial artists wouldn't hold their own in a fight on the street, most people should know that. On top of everything traditional martial arts can't make somebody who isn't a fighter, a fighter. It tends to draw people who aren't fighters, they may attain extra tools but it won't make them Liyoto Machida!

Karate IS meant to be practiced alone as well as with people. Forms are a great example of its solitary use. If we think of the complex technique in forms we think "no way you can become effective at self defense on your own without a teacher" but if we think of striking being the way to victory, it makes one think it's less of a big deal. The first lesson I learned in 1993 was "in a fight you are extremely likely to only use your most basic and simplist techniques"!

To me the absolute best way to teach self defense is sparring, I watch new students get in there often and trip over themselves under pressure, no matter how much I teach them. The more experienced can actually try things out with more ease. Self defense moves are done too slowly with no pressure and have a hard time holding a candle next to a person in sparring hear swing at you lol. In my opinion though striking something can be a great substitute and if you can successfully imagine your hitting a person I don't feel that "you can't learn effective martial arts" on your own.

If you can honestly video yourself, and break down everything your doing along side somebody else, I don't think for a second you can't learn on your own. Most certainly all won't be learning to fight anyways. I practice Hung Gar Kung Fu. I don't find a great deal of it useful for fighting, but for strengthening my legs, controlling my breathing, memory (there is an entire story verbally spoken with each form), art and more I practice it. I can't see that being so hard to learn online that one couldn't do it. To be honest I don't have a tremendous amount of faith in a lot of teachers. Many IMHO will steer many students in the wrong direction anyways. They will give them a false sense of being able to handle themselves, they will teach techniques improperly and so on. Is the value of a teacher so high when we think of it like this.

I once read that bruce lee use to train with students in football padding and sometimes pieces of mattresses and so on, so that they may go full force and not hold back because he believed you will execute how you practice. In other words you spar tapping people and create a habit of taking it easy, not going full force. When you fight you will be like a fish out of water trying to go full force. I don't know any martial arts studios or teachers that do it like this, so in this theory many will still struggle in a fight to find techniques to successfully defend themselves under pressure.

I say, one can successfully train at home if they have the right mind frame, and dedicate themselves to refining technique. I think it comes down to having a good source, just like having a good teacher. Learning from 15 different and random people online will be rough. Learning from a trusted source is easily doable to me!

I strongly disagree with anybody that says it isn't worth more then a workout. One of the most important things I have learned in life as well as martial arts is not to let the "many" detour you from your path. Seeking advice is great but Follow "your" path and your heart and I assure you, YOU will find the answers that best suit you.