Of What Value Is It?!

[sensei8]

What if, for example, Morio Higaonna, Hanshi, Judan of Goju-ryu, more specifically, the founder and CI of the International Okinawan Goju-ryu Karate-do Federation...

had NEVER had a street fight(s), in his 77 years on the planet!!

Would his knowledge...experience...and the like, be tainted, and not taken serious, of no value, if he had never ever had a street fight(s)??

It seems to be important to many, but not all, MAist that this one prerequisite must be garnered in order to be taken serious and of value on the floor.

What do you think?

[JR 137]

It depends on what the person is teaching. I have no issues with him never being in a "street fight" if what he's teaching makes sense to me and it's been proven time and time again. The proof is on the floor.

I've said it countless times before... Was Angelo Dundee a great boxer? Kevin Rooney? Was Phil Jackson a great NBA player (he did play for the Knicks, but he wasn't anyone special)? Bill Parcells, Bobby Knight, the list goes on and on.

To be honest, very, very few highly successful athletes had a coaching career that amounted to much. Larry Bird is a very rare exception, and the jury's still out on Don Mattingly. I can't think of any hall of famer in any sport that had a hall of fame coaching career or even close to it. Bird was a great coach, but he didn't accomplish anything close to what he accomplished as a player. Had he not been Larry Bird, his coaching stint may well have been kind of forgettable.

MA teachers are coaches IMO. We don't call them that and they have different methods, but the essence of what they both do isn't very far apart.

And for the record, Charles Martin of Fighting Black Kings fame claims to have never been in a street fight. Anyone who knows who he is and has been around him for longer than a minute or two will tell you he doesn't lose any credibility because of it.

[Spartacus Maximus]

There are an infinite number of things that give expert martial artist credibility besides the number of times they have actually had to use their skills. Morio Higaonna's case is not unique and there are quite a few other experts who either have never been in a fight situation.

It should also be noted that more often than not, such experts are very aware and humble about what they are capable of and therefore might not readily discuss experiences where they were forced to use what they know. What gives credibility is how they teach, what they teach and how they train.

[IcemanSK]

I'm going to take a bit of a different take on the question & bring up boxing trainer Freddie Roach. Freddie was a tough-as-nails hard-headed fighter who didn't back up often during his career. He retired very early from fighting after, while earning respect, never won a world title. He then began training fighters under his mentor, the late great Eddie Futch. He now trains fighters to fight a smarter fight than he ever did.

I think there's value in experience. But sometimes, there is greater value in being able to take a step back & analyze a better way to fight. I don't always think that it's necessary to have to have fought in order to train folks well.

[sensei8]

There are an infinite number of things that give expert martial artist credibility besides the number of times they have actually had to use their skills. Morio Higaonna's case is not unique and there are quite a few other experts who either have never been in a fight situation.

It should also be noted that more often than not, such experts are very aware and humble about what they are capable of and therefore might not readily discuss experiences where they were forced to use what they know. What gives credibility is how they teach, what they teach and how they train.

Btw, I've no idea, one way or another if Higaonna has ever been in a fight or not. I surely didn't want to leave the impression that he'd not ever been in a fight before.

We hear, quite a lot..."What skills/experience does he/she have? They've never been in a street fight before, so, they've nothing to compare to in order to teach; blank slate." Again, it's their opinion, and they've that right, however, I'm of the opinion that their assumption is quite unfair, especially when the opinion is from afar without personally knowing anything about the person.

[Spartacus Maximus]

If recent historical accounts are at least somewhat reliable, having never been in a fight is/was something for which many famed experts were known for in Okinawa. Itosu Anko comes to mind, as does his student Chibana.

There will always be people who will only accept a truth when it bites them on the backside. Mr Higaonna is certainly not someone that these types would want to test. Then again, it is not very likely that experts such as him would be inclined to prove his skills in that way.

[sensei8]

If recent historical accounts are at least somewhat reliable, having never been in a fight is/was something for which many famed experts were known for in Okinawa. Itosu Anko comes to mind, as does his student Chibana.

There will always be people who will only accept a truth when it bites them on the backside. Mr Higaonna is certainly not someone that these types would want to test. Then again, it is not very likely that experts such as him would be inclined to prove his skills in that way.

It is said, both worldwide as well as in Okinawa, that Higaonna Sensei is considered the most dangerous man alive.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Experts like him are invariably paradoxal people. Despite a lifetime of training to develop frightening skills, they are very modest and mild mannered.

A few years ago there was a popular martial arts themed television programme where a couple of amateur martial artist travelled around the world sampling different systems. At the end they would have a friendly challenge sparring match with someone from that system. At the end of the Okinawa episode, both hosts were very disappointed because ALL the Okinawan experts very flatly, but politely rejected their request to spar.

[MAfreak]

It is said, both worldwide as well as in Okinawa, that Higaonna Sensei is considered the most dangerous man alive.

same was said of mike tyson, ken shamrock and whoever else...

no one is unbeatable and such is just boasting. also from doing kata no one really learns how to fight. at least goju ruy is one of the best karate styles since it teaches ground fighting too.

at the topic i'd say if the techniques were proved from whoever in what fight ever (sports or self-defense) than it doesn't matter if the specific teacher of oneself ever had a street fight.

[JR 137]

Experts like him are invariably paradoxal people. Despite a lifetime of training to develop frightening skills, they are very modest and mild mannered.

A few years ago there was a popular martial arts themed television programme where a couple of amateur martial artist travelled around the world sampling different systems. At the end they would have a friendly challenge sparring match with someone from that system. At the end of the Okinawa episode, both hosts were very disappointed because ALL the Okinawan experts very flatly, but politely rejected their request to spar.

Was the show Fight Quest? I haven't seen one about Okinawan karate. I've got to look for it if it is. Great show.