How old is it really?

[Spartacus Maximus]

In martial arts culture there are many claims as to how old or how far back a style or system goes. Some have more outrageous claims of several hundred or even thousands of years. However if only the most probable historical sources are considered, it is possible to find a more likely and realistic idea of how old a system really is.

Karate in the forms it is known today is most likely no more than 100 years old. Matsumura Sokon and his contemporaries taught various forms known as Shurite, Nahate and Tomarite around 200 years ago.The styles practised today all trace back to Okinawan experts who taught and spread their systems from 1900 and later. A conservative estimate would make karate about 200 years old.

What about your martial art? How old can it reasonably be said to be?

[Montana]

Okinawan Shorin Ryu Matsumura Seito Karate-Do, if you're doing it the old way and resistant to changes made by some instructors of the system, is about 200 years old.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Every system going back to Matsumura Sokon is around the same age if the age is counted from his era. Anything prior to this was known as Shuri-te, Naha-te or Tomari-te. Looking further back only shows less and less specific or reliable answers.

For example, the only thing known about Matsumura's predecessors only mentions their names and that they trained and taught chuan fa, which is a generic term for Chinese martial arts.

Considering all of this, the oldest known account of martial arts systems distinct from Chinese ones taught in Okinawa goes back to the mid 17th century(see Takahara); by which time the Ryukyu kingdom had already had several hundred years of Chinese cultural influence and exchange, as well as growing influence from mainland Japan through the Satsuma clan who invaded in 1608.

[Lupin1]

Isshinryu was created in the 1940s and 50s. I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim it was ancient.

For my Shodan I had to research the history of Okinawan karate. Karate itself isn't very old, but it traces its roots to much older forms of unarmed combat (mostly Kung Fu).

[Spartacus Maximus]

Indeed. Isshinryu and many others are approximately the same age. There is a well known old photo commemorating one of the first official gatherings of all the Okinawan experts taken around mid 1900. Among the two or three rows are nearly all the founders of the styles existing at that time. Goju ryu, Shorin ryu, Uechi ryu and everything in between. The photo is quite easy to find and it is included in countless websites and books.

[MAfreak]

unfortunately also "kung fu" can't be traced back to its roots.

from, lets say, before middle ages there are just myths left.

there's the theory that the martial arts might be came from europe to asia, since ancient greek had olympic wrestling and boxing and the first mma called pankration. and there are, for example, old paintings of guys doing standing straight armlocks or wrist locks like known from common jujutsu illustrations.

[Spartacus Maximus]

It is probably accurate to say that, as far back as it is realiably documented, most Chinese systems are no more than 500 years old. Going further back is increasingly unreliable and difficult because of several historical and cultural factors.

[JR 137]

"Martial arts" have existed since the first human beings roamed the earth. They had to defend themselves from predators and each other, and used tools to hunt. Actually, if you believe in evolution, they predate humans due to our hypothetical ancestors having the same necessities. The techniques and tools have evolved right alongside humans, and are still evolving, just as we are.

The reason why karate or any other art technically isn't thousands of years old is solely because it didn't carry that particular label that someone decided to give it. Ti/te/toudi predates karate as we currently call it in Okinawa. Ti/Te/toudi (if there's a debatable beginning) has to be preceded by another "martial art." It's not as if no one ever defended themself and one day some guy decided "you know what would be really cool? If I learned how to best people up and/or kill them." The very first inhabitants on Okinawa, just like every other land, knew how to defend themselves, otherwise they'd have become extinct.

I say this because people say martial arts were stared in China, Asia, India, etc. If they're debating formalized martial arts where techniques were systematized and teaching of them was standardized, then you can look for a beginning. But then again, throughout our history, the elders in a tribe taught the young how to hunt and defend themselves from day one, so it's really impossible to determine the exact date and location of martial arts.

Karate as we know it is a blend of Chinese arts and Ti (before it was brought to Japan and had influences from there). Ti is a sort of formalized form of self defense that was evolved from more primitive forms, and on and on, descended from the first organisms we can identify as human-like. Trying to figure out exactly when something was started is only accurate when the name changes.

[MAfreak]

It's not as if no one ever defended themself and one day some guy decided "you know what would be really cool?

of course and no one questioned this.

its more like when specific complicated techniques like above mentioned armlocks came up and were collected and teached. this is like the developing of weapons, it didn't came with instincts like striking with hands.

[sensei8]

Shindokan Saitou-ryu was founded in 1950 by Fuyuhiko Saitou, Soke, Judan; not an ancient style by any means, and if it is, so am I...I was born in 1957. Good grief...I'm old...er...est!!