Does lineage matter?

[Spartacus Maximus]

Lineage allows one to know where and whom one's skills came from, but it is just as important to know where one is taking these skills and what one expects to achieve. At the individual level, the importance of lineage depends on personal interests. When one begins to seriously instruct another person, then it ought to be the responsibility of an instructor to know the lineage in greater detail and be able to explain it as best as possible.

[IcemanSK]

For me lineage matters because I've met a few of my Seniors in my lineage. I've studies & heard of their talent on the floor & their character off the floor. They give me something to aspire to & something to pass on to my students. When I meet someone of great character (kindness, humility, integrity) they're are someone I want to hold up to my students.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Lineage is important to some degree to anyone training, but it becomes even more so when one has the responsibility and honour of passing on knowledge and skills. It is very important for an instructor to be able to say with pride and confidence "my instructor was X, this is what I learned from him and thanks to him I can teach this to others" it also applies to other things, not just martial arts. Those who have taught a valuable lesson and made a difference deserved to be remembered as much as the lessons themselves.

[kenpokarate805]

Its great to know my lineage in karate because I will know who my instructors teacher is and were his system come from whether his good or not or whether his fake or not whether his karate is good or not

fortunately my Instructor is always telling who is his instructor and what system of karate does he do its awesome. I belong to Parker /Flores Lineage in American Kenpo Karate and ed Parkers instructor is professor William chow

[sensei8]

So, if I'm correct...lineage matters to that person!! Just who is 'that person'? Well, it's the one asking!! So what does a student do? Believe it? Not believe it? Care? Don't care?

Just how many mouse's does one carry in their pockets? Let's see! Your Sensei...his/her Sensei...then their Sensei...then someone else down the line...then another...and another...so on and so forth until one finally gets to the founder of the style.

Not that everyone's known to every man, woman, and child, even in todays fast food internet world, but even as the doubting Thomas' of the world exist and persist ever the more, the undeniable factor still resides in the MAist standing before you; flesh and bone and blood, in the one person that's teaching you or has taught you or will teach someone somewhere someday somehow.

Lineage is important to someone! However, the dead don't teach, and in that, that chosen instructor before you must teach, and to me, while the past is important, the present is even more important because it ushers in the future.

I will forever thank the founder of Shindokan Saitou-ryu, Fuyuhiko Saitou...as well as my Sensei, Yoshinobu Takahashi, for everything they've ever taught me on and off the floor. Albeit, they're both pretty much unknown outside of the Shindokan circle...but they did exist, and not just to me, but to the entire Shindokan student body. What about my students? I didn't just stand on the sidelines and idly watch Soke and Dai-Soke teach MY students. NO! I taught them...me...not them!! Don't I count for something...anything?!? What am I? A figment of someone's imagination? A doormat? Can't my students just say, when asked the million dollar question..."Who's your instructor?"..."My Sensei is Robert Mitcham", and let that me enough.

Just who, what, where, when, why and how in the creation of the MA did I have to validate myself to others through my Soke and Dai-Soke?? Aren't we complete in our totality as MAists?? Well, I am!! Maybe, hopefully, my way of thinking is an out-of-the-box type of mindset. But, wait! If someone doesn't agree with my way of thinking/mindset/ideology, then it's cast to the wayside as a babbling notion, and forgotten faster than it was ever brought up. Why? Because I don't fit into THIER MOLD...into THEIR MINDSET...into THEIR STANDARDS.

Based on what?

Lineage!!

Lineage isn't kept in it's proper context/content; it's placed on some pedestal to be worshiped and adored beyond all things....even though the proof is on the floor...one way or another!!

[Sentoka]

My teacher never made a point of telling us his lineage, nor did we care. We practiced Wado Ryu. Sorted.

It was his own organisation, and he'd sat on the same rank for as long as i'd been training. We didn't give it any real thought. Sure, the uniforms were a bit extravagant, and he trailed off on his Zen ramblings a bit. The cost of old age and not having a superior to answer to.

Last year, after training with him for over a decade, I started planning my trip to Japan. I bit the bullet and asked him. All of a sudden, I found our direct lineage straight to Ohtsuka himself. Through McClean sensei, Sakai sensei, then to Ohtsuka meijin.

I can directly trace my lineage to the founder of our style, within a few generations of teachers.

It's had no real impact on my training, if anything its made me more rebellious, and eager to break those rules, man!

Lineage is a big thing to some people because I think they believe they can use it as validation for what they practice. That said, the old masters weren't infallible. The access to information we have now far surpasses any means of research thy had back then. In simply a few clicks I can access majority of information on a given style, or have a conversation with a teacher across the world.

If you train hard, train honestly, and have a definitive goal in mind, then I don't think lineage effects what you do in the slightest.

[Spartacus Maximus]

There is a huge difference between putting experts of the past and famous instructors on a pedestal and knowing from whom one's system was inherited. The important thing about lineage, is that the founders and one's predecessors trained hard for many years to develop their skills.

They are were neither supermen or superior in any way, just ordinary men with uncommon dedication and passion(or obsession?) for what they did. They are just an example to look up to and inspire not to revere and put up as unattainable ideals.

[tallgeese]

Lots of good responses to a great question.

For me, yes. It matters quite a bit.

For startes, it's going to define what kind and how competent of a fighter you become. Without solid lineage you'll be a dancer at best. Now, how does this factor into how others perceive it?

As you move into the world of instructing, it becomes important for people who want to train with you to know where the skills you're teaching them come from. Have they been tested? Pressure tested or street tested? How verifiable are claims of effectiveness? How was what you're doing developed?

This goes to matching your goals with the development of the tactics you're teaching.

So, for a lot of reasons, being able to cite and intelligently discuss these things becomes very important.

[JR 137]

Lots of good responses to a great question.

For me, yes. It matters quite a bit.

For startes, it's going to define what kind and how competent of a fighter you become. Without solid lineage you'll be a dancer at best. Now, how does this factor into how others perceive it?

As you move into the world of instructing, it becomes important for people who want to train with you to know where the skills you're teaching them come from. Have they been tested? Pressure tested or street tested? How verifiable are claims of effectiveness? How was what you're doing developed?

This goes to matching your goals with the development of the tactics you're teaching.

So, for a lot of reasons, being able to cite and intelligently discuss these things becomes very important.

I think BJJ is a bit of a wild card here with lineage. I think it's due to the heavy competitive nature of it and the Gracies making a name for themselves in MMA and the UFC.

Same as (although possibly not as much as) karate back in the era of Kyokushin's Open tournaments' popularity back in the 70s and 80s. I think when someone makes huge waves, people want to learn their methods.