How long before you felt proficient at your chosen MA?

[sensei8]

Being Proficient isn't being Perfect; no one is...perfect! Just because one feels that they could've done better, doesn't mean that they're not proficient. Those who want to be perfect in everything they do, will never feel satisfied with their performance, no matter what.

[JR 137]

As sensei8 said, proficient by who's standards? Furthermore, define proficient (not the Webster's dictionary definition, but a real world working definition.

IMO, proficiency didn't take too long. I learned quickly how to properly throw a punch and how to properly throw a few basic kicks. After some sparring, I learned when to throw them and not to throw them, and how to avoid them. It certainly didn't take years to be able to use them in a self defense situation. I'd say I was proficient after few months of sparring at most.

What's proficient? According to my example above, being able to use the basics when needed, in a realistic manner. Not against UFC competitors, former inmates who've done serious hard time, etc., but everyday people.

Proficiency and mastery aren't one in the same. Not even close. I'd say proficiency in its earliest stages is a functional knowledge, or ability to use the art at its most basic form. It's being able to use its fundamentals. An analogy could be a high school physics student being asked how long it would take an object to hit the ground that was thrown out of an airplane flying at X altitude, and approximately where the object would land if the airplane was traveling at Y miles per hour. The student was taught the theory and how to solve the problem. If the student can reasonably solve it, he/she is proficient. There's a lot more to the problem that puts it beyond a high school student's head, such as terminal velocity based on the shape, drag, air currents, temperature, etc., but understanding and applying the basics makes the student who can solve the problem proficient. The ones who can get more specific about the other stuff have reached a level closer to mastery.

Just my opinion.

[bushido_man96]

It's a sliding rule depending on one's goals. When I first started out my goal was combatives. I was in it for self defense. On that front, within a year I was infinitely more capable of taking care of myself than before.

Let's break this down. If you're an average citizen, with normal self defense goals, and you train 3 days per week, two hours per day that's 6 hours per week. That is roughly 24 hours of training in a month. That's 288 HOURS of training in that year. If you train 3 hours instead of 2, or add a 4th day. You end up with 432 hours.

Look at those numbers. If you can't go from a zero sum fighter to an individual that can understand use of force and deployment of physical skill agains violence at a basic level, something is really not connecting between you and the instructor. We can dress this up all we want and go on about it taking lifetimes to master and fully understand things, but at the end of the day, if you can't get to a point to defend yourself in those allotted hour then either your goals don't match what the instructor is teaching or the instruction itself is lacking some thing you need.

Please note, I'm not talking about winning every conflict. I'm talking about being proficient.

Now, if you have different goals, this number can change. If you want to understand every nuance of ever matter in the art, numbers can go higher. Want to step in the cage, add some more. Cross train with weapons, longer due to more modalities to get proficient with.

So proficiency is a bit of moving target. For me, I think sometimes we get too caught up in decade of study for the "basics." Given the relationship of martial arts to self defense, I think we do a disservice to the heart of the arts if we tell people it will be years to learn to defend themselves.

But, what if your goal isn't self defence or competition?

What if your goal is to perform the best Kata you possibly can with the best techniques you have?

What if your goal is to perform the best Junzuki (forward punch)?

An archer can hit the bulls eye 3 out of 3 and yet still be unhappy with the way the shots felt!

This weekend Ronnie O'sullivan (one of the greatest snooker players ever to wield a cue) - won the Masters - thrashing his opponent 10-1. His first words after the match were that he felt he didn't play very well and was disappointed!

Once you get past the need to defend yourself - you realise the martial arts are much more multi dimensional and ultimately, the beauty of their study lies in the realisation that you NEVER become proficient.

It's about being better than you were the last time you trained and finding something new everyday.

K.

Alex gave a fantastic layout above, and that is along the lines I think of when I think about becoming proficient in a style. I do think that one should start feeling confident with the idea of successfully defending oneself in the timeframe that he provided.

Kusotare hits the nail on the head in regards to the reasons why most of us embark on a Martial Arts journey; for a lifetime of training, studying, learning, and improving. I think there is no doubt that most of us here view our time in the Martial Arts as a part of what we do and who we are as a person.

But, its not the same as what Alex is getting at. A good Martial Artist, learning a good Martial Art, should acquire both. I think that learning good self-defense should be the goal of a Martial Art, not the side-effects of good Martial Arts training.

Proficiency should happen fairly early on in the MA career, I think. From there, the lifelong journey of perfecting and bettering yourself should come naturally.

Now, to answer Danielle's question: I'm not sure. By the time I had earned my black belt, I was feeling pretty good about the improvements I had made, and felt like I could relay principles of the style to other students in a classroom setting. I might have got there before that, but I really gained confidence when I started teaching more.

[DWx]

Great answers so far

I deliberately didn't define the term "proficiency" as how you personally interpret it is an answer in itself.

For me, I'd say I truly felt proficient probably around 8 or 9 years of training. Around the time I just graded for my 3rd dan. Before then I definitely think I could do most things well physically, I'd even been competing internationally at that point. And I thought I had a reasonable chance of defending myself successfully. But prior to that point I was still at the "monkey see, monkey do" stage. I could do what I was told or act according to the strategies of the style, but my understanding of the techniques and methodologies was limited to explanations that someone, somewhere down the line, had told me before. About 8 or 9 years in is when I think I started coming up with my own explanations.

[Lupin1]

I got my Shodan about a month ago. I've been training on and off (mostly off) for over 20 years with the last six years being more steady training.

I don't really feel "proficient" yet.

[bushido_man96]

I got my Shodan about a month ago. I've been training on and off (mostly off) for over 20 years with the last six years being more steady training.

I don't really feel "proficient" yet.

I think for many of us, its not something we start to realize on our own, but others probably see it manifest in us before we realize it.

We are our own worst critics, after all.

[Kusotare]

Those who want to be perfect in everything they do, will never feel satisfied with their performance, no matter what.

Agreed, but those who aspire to improve, set manageable goals toward that end - reap the rewards.

'It is the struggle itself that is more important.

 

It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards.' - Lt. Com. Data

K.

[Luther unleashed]

A lot of long well thought out answers. For me, when I learn a new form, or technique, it usually takes about 2 to 3 months before it looks how it should, being with the proper power, speed, balance and timing. Now, to ask when your proficient in a style? It should be black belt. A black belt (1st degree) should be proficient and understand the foundation of the art!

[IcemanSK]

Being Proficient isn't being Perfect; no one is...perfect! Just because one feels that they could've done better, doesn't mean that they're not proficient. Those who want to be perfect in everything they do, will never feel satisfied with their performance, no matter what.

We are often our worst critics.

[Melau]

Been doing my MA for 21 years now, teaching for 8. Objectively I know I have certain motor control, theoretical knowledge about the style and human physiology. But feeling proficient? Far from it. Training seiken tsuki / gyaku tsuki at least every lesson the past 21 years doesn't mean you will not spent doing that technique for another 2 hours under supervision of a Hachidan and feel entirely incompetent.

But that's the beauty of it, isn't it? I believe as soon as you stop seeing yourself as a mere student of your MA you will stop progressing, stop looking for new information, stop training as if you still got a long way to go.