How long before you felt proficient at your chosen MA?

[DWx]

Just curious as to your answers to the above question.

Was there a defining moment or did you gradually realise?

[Spartacus Maximus]

Been at it for the better part of 15 years and recently started and still would not feel confident in most of what I do. It will likely be a long time before I can consistently do the basics correctly with any real power. Right now it is hit/miss. The only thing that is clear at this point is how much I have been missing.

[IcemanSK]

I'd say there have been several points in my training, but when I look back at that time, I realize I was wrong. At brown belt (2 years in), I thought "yeah, I think I'm getting it." Six years of training, when I tested for 2nd Dan, I thought I was fairly proficient. At 12 years in, I fought in full-contact rules kickboxing & trained 3 hours 6 days a week. I fought better then, but I didn't have a clue about my forms, because I didn't care about them. Now, with more than 33 years of training, I'm less able to perform my Art as well as I wish I could, but I think I might have a better handle on the Art, than I did at other times in my training.

[sensei8]

Great topic, Danielle; thanks for starting it!!

June/July 2003 I was awarded my Hanshi by Yoshinobu Takahashi Sensei [Dai-Soke]...my Sensei!!

That's when I felt proficient! Why that?

Can't test for any Shogo title...Hanshi is the highest level one can achieve, and nonetheless, any Shogo title can only be bestowed upon by ones Sensei or the founder or the governing body; Dai-Soke in my case bestowed my Hanshi...and this means more than I could ever express, or hope for or expect.

I train not for the rank or for the titles, but I train for the knowledge; I'm complete in my MA totality!!

Rank means nothing...I can test for those...and I've tested for more than my share over these past 51 years. Yet, to have ones Sensei bestow any Shogo title to them, that's a notable milestone, but to have Hanshi...well...

That's when I felt proficient! My Sensei saw that in me, something that I never saw in myself. Not one, but all three Shogo titles have been bestowed upon me by Dai-Soke.

This might not mean much to anyone else, but to me, it means something. There's not much that I'm good at, and I mean that, Shindokan is all I know and all that I'm good at, and in that, I know that I can teach with the best of them...the floor doesn't scare me, but it motivates me to do my best for my students, and for my Dai-Soke, and for my fellow MAist.

[The Pred]

I've been doing the martial arts for 25 years, and when I first started wasn't really into it. (parents signed me up) However, once I reached a certain age, I began to enjoy it, and slowly started to improve. Would i say that I am proficient. Perhaps, however, that's not up to me to decide.

[tallgeese]

It's a sliding rule depending on one's goals. When I first started out my goal was combatives. I was in it for self defense. On that front, within a year I was infinitely more capable of taking care of myself than before.

Let's break this down. If you're an average citizen, with normal self defense goals, and you train 3 days per week, two hours per day that's 6 hours per week. That is roughly 24 hours of training in a month. That's 288 HOURS of training in that year. If you train 3 hours instead of 2, or add a 4th day. You end up with 432 hours.

Look at those numbers. If you can't go from a zero sum fighter to an individual that can understand use of force and deployment of physical skill agains violence at a basic level, something is really not connecting between you and the instructor. We can dress this up all we want and go on about it taking lifetimes to master and fully understand things, but at the end of the day, if you can't get to a point to defend yourself in those allotted hour then either your goals don't match what the instructor is teaching or the instruction itself is lacking some thing you need.

Please note, I'm not talking about winning every conflict. I'm talking about being proficient.

Now, if you have different goals, this number can change. If you want to understand every nuance of ever matter in the art, numbers can go higher. Want to step in the cage, add some more. Cross train with weapons, longer due to more modalities to get proficient with.

So proficiency is a bit of moving target. For me, I think sometimes we get too caught up in decade of study for the "basics." Given the relationship of martial arts to self defense, I think we do a disservice to the heart of the arts if we tell people it will be years to learn to defend themselves.

[lowereastside]

1st its been awhile - hope everyone is well. I started to feel proficient when I tested my skills against other Sensei - Sifu from other styles. Then I would touch my teacher's hands and felt like a beginner.

[sensei8]

"If I tell you that I'm good, you'll say that I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm not good, you'll know that I'm lying!"~Bruce Lee

Proficiency means..."Well advanced in an art, occupation, or branch of knowledge...adept, skillful, expert, masterful, mastery" ~The Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Then the question always arises..."Whom determines that?" You, others, your instructor, his/her instructor, or the governing body?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

That's the Million dollar question...depending on the individual!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

If the answer is not "myself" then whatever it is must be the best answer. Self reference or evaluation is always biased in one's favour. How much so depends only on personal ego and quality of character. One is not as good or bad as one might believe.

The best idea of one's proficiency ought to come from the evaluation given by a trusted senior or instructor who has observed training and progress for long enough to judge skill level accurately.

[Kusotare]

It's a sliding rule depending on one's goals. When I first started out my goal was combatives. I was in it for self defense. On that front, within a year I was infinitely more capable of taking care of myself than before.

Let's break this down. If you're an average citizen, with normal self defense goals, and you train 3 days per week, two hours per day that's 6 hours per week. That is roughly 24 hours of training in a month. That's 288 HOURS of training in that year. If you train 3 hours instead of 2, or add a 4th day. You end up with 432 hours.

Look at those numbers. If you can't go from a zero sum fighter to an individual that can understand use of force and deployment of physical skill agains violence at a basic level, something is really not connecting between you and the instructor. We can dress this up all we want and go on about it taking lifetimes to master and fully understand things, but at the end of the day, if you can't get to a point to defend yourself in those allotted hour then either your goals don't match what the instructor is teaching or the instruction itself is lacking some thing you need.

Please note, I'm not talking about winning every conflict. I'm talking about being proficient.

Now, if you have different goals, this number can change. If you want to understand every nuance of ever matter in the art, numbers can go higher. Want to step in the cage, add some more. Cross train with weapons, longer due to more modalities to get proficient with.

So proficiency is a bit of moving target. For me, I think sometimes we get too caught up in decade of study for the "basics." Given the relationship of martial arts to self defense, I think we do a disservice to the heart of the arts if we tell people it will be years to learn to defend themselves.

But, what if your goal isn't self defence or competition?

What if your goal is to perform the best Kata you possibly can with the best techniques you have?

What if your goal is to perform the best Junzuki (forward punch)?

An archer can hit the bulls eye 3 out of 3 and yet still be unhappy with the way the shots felt!

This weekend Ronnie O'sullivan (one of the greatest snooker players ever to wield a cue) - won the Masters - thrashing his opponent 10-1. His first words after the match were that he felt he didn't play very well and was disappointed!

Once you get past the need to defend yourself - you realise the martial arts are much more multi dimensional and ultimately, the beauty of their study lies in the realisation that you NEVER become proficient.

It's about being better than you were the last time you trained and finding something new everyday.

K.