Conciliatory gestures to a defeated opponent.

[Wado Heretic]

No knocks taken; I shared the issue as I was looking for contrasting views. I think the following that has been said somewhat sets up where my opinion lies in the general theme;

Respect begets respect! The intent must be pure, and nothing else! Otherwise, the words exchanged will be lost, and unfounded!!

Therefore, do/say what's on YOUR heart, and be not lead by those who's examples offend you!!

It isn't totally alien to Asian culture either, when I lived in a Zen community I was expected to congratulate anyone who bested me in debate for the lesson I received. It isn't being subservient or diminishing the victory, it is about not letting defeat sow a seed around which the ego can weave a false image. Of course, you have to really mean it...

As mentioned; all I expect is sincerity out of my students. I am not going to direct them to actions that are not congruent with what they feel; it would be hypocritical of me to do so consider what I talk about on the training floor. If a student wishes to congratulate his opponent, or shake hands as is the western tradition of showing respect, they may do so but only if that is what they feel they should do. I would not direct them to do it as some part of a social contract which might be a dishonest action when taken against their personal values.

I do expect a student to accept defeat, and show respect to the floor by bowing to the floor and the judges, and do consider it more important not to lose to the self than to win or lose on the floor. However, I do not expect other gestures which must be made by choice to be sincere.

In my own competition days; I never offered such gestures as I was never certain as to how the recipient would receive them, nor did I desire them in return. If I fought well, and left it all on the floor that was all the statement I needed to make; words just confused the matter. An opponent who was defeated and felt they did not fight a good match would rightly take insult at my insistence it was a good match; it would just be better to have left it all on the mat. In my mind actions speak louder than words, and one earns their victory as much as they earn their defeats; I would rather let the work done say what needs to be said.

I would never condone outright rudeness, such as ignoring your opponent or failing to acknowledge the floor, your opponent, and the judges, but at the same time I would never direct my students to incongruent gestures. That is the dilemma I find myself facing, because I consider karate a path to individual development, and that means being allowed to make your own mistakes and express yourself without the filter of your instructor constantly in your ear.

[DWx]

As always it's each to their own, everyone is free to do as they please but, in my personal opinion I think it's also necessary to show that respect to your opponent. I always make a point of shaking my opponents hand after a match, win or lose, I feel it's just common courtesy. Even if I feel things should've went more my way, I smile and say well done. I wouldn't embarrass myself or my instructor by being petulant enough to turn my back and walk away. I competed in an all styles Kata competition last year, I was on the floor second, I watched my opponent do her thing and then took to the floor myself, when I was finished, I bowed to the referee and left the floor but, as I was leaving I noticed my opponent had her back turned and apparently had so my entire Kata. I have to say, this infuriated me, she (in my opinion) showed nothing but disrespect with that action and I took maximum offence at it. Overreaction? I don't know, perhaps, someone else my not read much into it but, I sure took offence at it. It's something I hadn't seen up until then but, I'm seeing more and more of it now and it really bothers me. Massively more so than someone not shaking my hand would.

Mo.

Ps She won the round but, I still shook her hand

It depends what she was doing exactly but she might not be disrespectful. Sometimes I struggle to watch my opponents as it turns me into a complete bag of nerves. For me especially I can't watch my opponents during breaking competitions. I end up calculating and analyzing their every move and it sends my stress levels through the roof.

But yeah if she was turned away and talking then that isn't so good!

[Montana]

If it was a good fight, no flagrant INTENTIONAL rule violations (cheap shots for example), then a bow, handshake, or a few words is all you need.

[bushido_man96]

I view them as a mark of sportsmanship. I prefer to shake hands before and after a match (along with a bow). If I lose, its not me necessarily congratulating them on beating me, but merely a gesture of gratitude for allowing two competitors to come together, give it their all, and then appreciate the experience.