Uraken or Kizami Tsuki?

[Shotokannon]

Hi Guys,

Someone at my Dojo told me the other day that Uraken (which I consider a stronger technique than a Kizami Tsuki) won't score a point in competition because it's not strong enough, but I sometimes find it to be a bit more flexible and depending on the application I believe it can be a very strong technique.

What's your opinion, do you prefer Uraken Uchi or Kizami Tsuki?

[Wado Heretic]

It is not necessarily a case of stronger or weaker; but what s more readily observed by the people in charge of scoring. A kizami tsuki (I have never encountered this term before so have just done some very quick research) probably "looks" more decisive as it has more forward motion, where as a uraken can just look like a flick of the wrist in point competition. Plus it is more easily confused with a defensive movement, even to the trained eye, at competition speed.

In full contact both are comparable, and the uraken can be an excellent technique for surprising and putting your opponent on the back foot, and I have seen a spinning uraken knock people down and out. I actually favour the back fist over a jab in full contact, because most people are familiar with the classic punches of boxing, so it can be a surprising maneuver to some.

However, the quality and look of a technique matters in point competition, and in that sense the kizami tsuki looks more decisive, due to the greater forward momentum and the fixture, kime, of the technique. I cannot recall ever using it to win a match in my point sparring days; if I ever used a technique like it, it was only as a set up to a Gyaku tsuki. I also never used a uraken in point sparring though. I would always favour a more decisive looking technique, such as a gyaku tsuki, head kick, or sweep, so if it was not one of those it was a faint. I would always advise going for a scoring technique, that if it was not pulled, would be effective in full contact. Leaves no hard feelings that way.

[sensei8]

It is not necessarily a case of stronger or weaker; but what s more readily observed by the people in charge of scoring. A kizami tsuki (I have never encountered this term before so have just done some very quick research) probably "looks" more decisive as it has more forward motion, where as a uraken can just look like a flick of the wrist in point competition. Plus it is more easily confused with a defensive movement, even to the trained eye, at competition speed.

In full contact both are comparable, and the uraken can be an excellent technique for surprising and putting your opponent on the back foot, and I have seen a spinning uraken knock people down and out. I actually favour the back fist over a jab in full contact, because most people are familiar with the classic punches of boxing, so it can be a surprising maneuver to some.

However, the quality and look of a technique matters in point competition, and in that sense the kizami tsuki looks more decisive, due to the greater forward momentum and the fixture, kime, of the technique. I cannot recall ever using it to win a match in my point sparring days; if I ever used a technique like it, it was only as a set up to a Gyaku tsuki. I also never used a uraken in point sparring though. I would always favour a more decisive looking technique, such as a gyaku tsuki, head kick, or sweep, so if it was not one of those it was a faint. I would always advise going for a scoring technique, that if it was not pulled, would be effective in full contact. Leaves no hard feelings that way.

Solid post!!

It's how the technique(s) is SOLD to the judges and the like!

It's known in the Pro-Wrestling business...if the performers can sell the first three rows in the house, the entire house will believe in what they're seeing, and experiencing.

[bushido_man96]

And what would be the English translation of those two techniques?

[JackD]

Uraken is a back fist, lift the elbow a little flick out your forearm and your wrist and back fist follows (it's really a circular technique) but it's probably the fastest strike in karate(?), not powerful unless like Wado Heretic said it's used with a spin. I know a lot about this strike there's a guy I spar with often and he catches me with it every single time!

I'd say a Kizami Tsuki is more like a front arm jab, like a boxers jab.

[bushido_man96]

Uraken is a back fist, lift the elbow a little flick out your forearm and your wrist and back fist follows (it's really a circular technique) but it's probably the fastest strike in karate(?), not powerful unless like Wado Heretic said it's used with a spin. I know a lot about this strike there's a guy I spar with often and he catches me with it every single time!

I'd say a Kizami Tsuki is more like a front arm jab, like a boxers jab.

Thank you for the explanations.

When I used to point spar in the ATA, that flicking back fist strike was a popular one.

[sensei8]

Uraken is a back fist, lift the elbow a little flick out your forearm and your wrist and back fist follows (it's really a circular technique) but it's probably the fastest strike in karate(?), not powerful unless like Wado Heretic said it's used with a spin. I know a lot about this strike there's a guy I spar with often and he catches me with it every single time!

I'd say a Kizami Tsuki is more like a front arm jab, like a boxers jab.

Thank you for the explanations.

When I used to point spar in the ATA, that flicking back fist strike was a popular one.

Brian, I'm sure that it still is...popular...it can be an easy score!! One of my most favorite to execute.

[bushido_man96]

You can also feint with that backfist and run in a belt level side kick. Its a nice pair to work in together.

[sensei8]

You can also feint with that backfist and run in a belt level side kick. Its a nice pair to work in together.

That combo is STILL a good one for EVERY rank!!

[Oshishinobu]

I know at east the way I do Kizami it is intended to be a "knock out" tech. the uraken is fantastic but it is a snapping tech. both are strong but kizami is a very strong punch that should if landed knock the opponent back. As far as i know for my Org at least uraken is a scoring hit but harder to see as it is a smaller movement. OSU!!!