My dream has come true! Well, half of it!

[chiliphil1]

Hey guys, some of you may remember a while back that I made a post asking about opening a school. I had concerns that my rank may not be sufficient to do so and a few other things. After a bit of time and sort of dropping the idea a chance fell into my lap today and it ended with speaking with the lead instructor and founder of my organization and getting his full blessing to proceed with teaching! He told me the rank was not an issue as I would have the full support of himself and every other instructor in the organization to help me!!

I'm so excited, it's a lifetime dream coming true! Now the WORK begins. I must find a local place or two which will allow me to teach there. The leg work will start on Monday!

I have a couple of quick questions if anyone has time to answer. Firstly, when training at places other than your own school, do you find that churches, rec centers, etc are the place to be? Or is there another option which may be better? Do you carry your own insurance with you or do the facilities generally provide it? and finally, are you trained in things like CPR and first aid? I'm sure it would be a good idea and do plan to pursue it but is it something generally required?

Thanks for any help as always.

[Spartacus Maximus]

It would be very wise to abide by the principle of caution. When considering such things as liability in case of incidents, there is no such thing as being over-covered. A community centre, church basement etc may have its own policy but it is better to have a separate, personal one specific to the activity of martial arts. Theirs may not cover you at all and probably only concerns material losses in very limited cases.

Insurance: have as much as possible, bonus if the place provides it in addition to yours.

Public places such as those mentioned are the best places to start quickly because of the savings compared to renting purpose-made space. The only restrictions might be having to work with the schedule that is available. There is also much less risk in case of failure. Rent will generally be much cheaper and utilities and maintenance costs will be very little.

Good luck.

[chiliphil1]

It would be very wise to abide by the principle of caution. When considering such things as liability in case of incidents, there is no such thing as being over-covered. A community centre, church basement etc may have its own policy but it is better to have a separate, personal one specific to the activity of martial arts. Theirs may not cover you at all and probably only concerns material losses in very limited cases.

Insurance: have as much as possible, bonus if the place provides it in addition to yours.

Public places such as those mentioned are the best places to start quickly because of the savings compared to renting purpose-made space. The only restrictions might be having to work with the schedule that is available. There is also much less risk in case of failure. Rent will generally be much cheaper and utilities and maintenance costs will be very little.

Good luck.

Thank you for your response. I will start looking into insurance as I am looking into facilities.

[JR 137]

Not sure about the UK and insurance (I think somewhere you said you're in the UK?), but in the States, insurance companies are the biggest scam artists there are. Even if you're covered under the place you teach at's insurance, they'll come after you personally to recover their loss. Here's what I mean...

Say I teach karate in a rec center. I'm covered under their umbrella policy. I have a lapse of judgment and allow someone to do something they shouldn't be doing and they get hurt. Maybe I let a white belt spar against a black belt because I felt the white belt could handle it. The white belt gets hurt and sues, saying the weren't properly informed of the risks of sparring. The court agrees with them, and awards them $10k. Or the insurance company settles with them out of court for $10k. The insurance company pays the plaintiff, then sues you personally to recover that loss because you were personally responsible.

It's not far fetched at all. I've seen it happen. Not just in the MA either. People think they're fine because they're covered under someone else's umbrella policy, then "their" insurance company sues them to recover their losses.

Also, make sure you have CPR and first aid. Insurance aside, if one of your students collapses, don't you want to make sure you did everything possible to help them, regardless of the outcome? What about a family member or friend outside the dojo? It's a life skill everyone should have, regardless of their profession. I'm biased, being a CPR instructor.

To add, waivers are worthless. They never hold up in court. Might as well print them on toilet paper, because then they'll actually have the chance to be useful for something.

[Luther unleashed]

First off congradulations on the approval. This makes things much easier then going off on your own as i did.

Im not sure whee you live but im sure it will matter as far as where to teach. I live in pheonix az. In the greater phoenix area its really tough finding a place. One certsinly can find a place but it takes persistance.

So i started my own school at a rec center only 11 months ago, i couldnt find a place very easily but once my school pulled out of the rec center they were teaching at, i took it. It was lucky timing. Elementry schools are very hard to find out here that dont already have a prigram but they are a great way ti go because the student base is on the property already. Churches? I have seen a few programs here and there but any time i have called a church they werent interested in a profit making program using their facility.

Rec centers can also be great, and mine only takes 10 percent from me and i keep the rest. They dont bother me at all, sone are a little different even here in phienix so again, wherever your at may or may not be the similar. I turned down a rec center near my home because they wanted to take 30 percent and that left me charging a good deal more then my other location just to make the same after their cut. Id say as hard as it is be patient and find whats right, i have been looking for a great second location for months and nothing yet.

Just because im curious… will you be testing the students? Will you take only a percentage of tuition? Will you have help in class at all?. If any of these questions are invasive please dont answer and i wont be offended. Just looking to offer advice thats all.

Oh sorry, and to your questions the facility follows guidlines based on state laws. Here in AZ, you mist have insurance to teach. You must also have current cpr & first aid certification. You must also have a baclround check (in AZ you mist have an arizona fingerprint clearence card which is thorough.)

The insurance needed in a rec center is typically only "instructor insurance" and NOT "school insurance". For me this was only around $350 for the year. The school insurance was around $750 so glad i didnt need that. Cpr and first aid typically done in a 4 hour class for around 30 bucks and your good for 2 years. Backround i cant remember if i paid but took a grlew weeks.

Hope i helped with at least something in your indevor. Good luck.

[chiliphil1]

Not sure about the UK and insurance (I think somewhere you said you're in the UK?), but in the States, insurance companies are the biggest scam artists there are. Even if you're covered under the place you teach at's insurance, they'll come after you personally to recover their loss. Here's what I mean...

Say I teach karate in a rec center. I'm covered under their umbrella policy. I have a lapse of judgment and allow someone to do something they shouldn't be doing and they get hurt. Maybe I let a white belt spar against a black belt because I felt the white belt could handle it. The white belt gets hurt and sues, saying the weren't properly informed of the risks of sparring. The court agrees with them, and awards them $10k. Or the insurance company settles with them out of court for $10k. The insurance company pays the plaintiff, then sues you personally to recover that loss because you were personally responsible.

It's not far fetched at all. I've seen it happen. Not just in the MA either. People think they're fine because they're covered under someone else's umbrella policy, then "their" insurance company sues them to recover their losses.

Also, make sure you have CPR and first aid. Insurance aside, if one of your students collapses, don't you want to make sure you did everything possible to help them, regardless of the outcome? What about a family member or friend outside the dojo? It's a life skill everyone should have, regardless of their profession. I'm biased, being a CPR instructor.

To add, waivers are worthless. They never hold up in court. Might as well print them on toilet paper, because then they'll actually have the chance to be useful for something.

I am in the US. Coming from a background in the insurance industry I completely agree with you! Insurance is always about risk/reward so if they have to spend money they WILL get it back if someone can be blamed, simple as that. I greatly appreciate your input and will definitely pursue the certifications.

[chiliphil1]

First off congradulations on the approval. This makes things much easier then going off on your own as i did.

Im not sure whee you live but im sure it will matter as far as where to teach. I live in pheonix az. In the greater phoenix area its really tough finding a place. One certsinly can find a place but it takes persistance.

So i started my own school at a rec center only 11 months ago, i couldnt find a place very easily but once my school pulled out of the rec center they were teaching at, i took it. It was lucky timing. Elementry schools are very hard to find out here that dont already have a prigram but they are a great way ti go because the student base is on the property already. Churches? I have seen a few programs here and there but any time i have called a church they werent interested in a profit making program using their facility.

Rec centers can also be great, and mine only takes 10 percent from me and i keep the rest. They dont bother me at all, sone are a little different even here in phienix so again, wherever your at may or may not be the similar. I turned down a rec center near my home because they wanted to take 30 percent and that left me charging a good deal more then my other location just to make the same after their cut. Id say as hard as it is be patient and find whats right, i have been looking for a great second location for months and nothing yet.

Just because im curious… will you be testing the students? Will you take only a percentage of tuition? Will you have help in class at all?. If any of these questions are invasive please dont answer and i wont be offended. Just looking to offer advice thats all.

Oh sorry, and to your questions the facility follows guidlines based on state laws. Here in AZ, you mist have insurance to teach. You must also have current cpr & first aid certification. You must also have a baclround check (in AZ you mist have an arizona fingerprint clearence card which is thorough.)

The insurance needed in a rec center is typically only "instructor insurance" and NOT "school insurance". For me this was only around $350 for the year. The school insurance was around $750 so glad i didnt need that. Cpr and first aid typically done in a 4 hour class for around 30 bucks and your good for 2 years. Backround i cant remember if i paid but took a grlew weeks.

Hope i helped with at least something in your indevor. Good luck.

Thank you for the input. I am thinking rec centers may be the better option. I have several churches close to me which hold some gatherings that are not church related, of course I would plan to offer them at least some of the profit. I can think of 3 rec centers which I could speak with and will speak with. The elementary schools I'm not sure of, I don't believe they offer any programs there, I know they do at the middle school as my daughter is enrolled in it but not at the elementary school, so that could be an opportunity there though I would like to attract adult students as well, so I would need a second facility going.

As far as your questions, Yes I will be testing the students, as it is now I can promote up to 2nd red belt which is 2 from black, most of the time the 1st red and black belt testing happens in front of the big board anyway, so it isn't that big of a deal. I'm not sure how it is going to work with my pay, I honestly don't plan to make a living with this for a while yet, just something i love doing. I guess the answer would be, it depends on the place, if they charge 30% then I will take 70% and so forth.. Really just depends on how it works out. For the time being I will not have help in class. My organization's chief said that when he can he will stop by, he also said that the other senior instructors would do the same when they can. I can say this, my old CI and the current head of the organization was notified yesterday of my intent to do this and has already contacted me and asked me to call him tomorrow so that he can give me some pointers and help getting going. In addition to all of this I will be able to attend black belt and instructor only meetings and trainings in which I can continue my education and rank advancement while learning higher level things which pertain to training of students.. I think it will be a win/win all around. I just need to find my place and get my certifications and licenses which I will do immediately. I don't think the back ground check will be too tough as I have passed them for many other things and have a blank criminal record.

I'll get started on things tomorrow and will update how things go, please keep the advice coming. I appreciate every bit of it!

[DWx]

Congratulations chiliphil1 wish you every success.

Before jumping into things I would personally sit down and think about the following and flesh out everything :

- Insurance (does you organisation not help to provide this)

- First aid training

- Relevant safety and criminal checks on you

- Venue, what they charge and subsequently what you need to charge to cover your overheads

- Are you targeting kids, or adults, families?

Any other's want to add to the list?

I think you also need to have funds saved up as a good proportion of schools actually lose mobey in the first 6 to 12 months before breaking even.

[chiliphil1]

Congratulations chiliphil1 wish you every success.

Before jumping into things I would personally sit down and think about the following and flesh out everything :

- Insurance (does you organisation not help to provide this)

- First aid training

- Relevant safety and criminal checks on you

- Venue, what they charge and subsequently what you need to charge to cover your overheads

- Are you targeting kids, or adults, families?

Any other's want to add to the list?

I think you also need to have funds saved up as a good proportion of schools actually lose mobey in the first 6 to 12 months before breaking even.

Here are my answers, please give your opinion if I am wrong, this is my first time venturing into something like this so I literally need all the help I can get!

- Insurance (does you organisation not help to provide this) I do, after the above posts from other members plan to get and carry insurance for my training, regardless of the facility or association insurance, I will have my own.

- First aid training. I will absolutely be doing this along with CPR certification, I will start calling tomorrow to find out where to go.

- Relevant safety and criminal checks on you. Same as above, once places are open tomorrow I will make sure I have this.

- Venue, what they charge and subsequently what you need to charge to cover your overheads. I want to be reasonable, most schools around here are outrageous and that has been the primary reason that I have not been able to train for a number of years. I am thinking something along these lines. Pay by class $5, per month $89, or per year $ 900. That may be adjusted depending on the rate that I have to pay to use my space but I will not know that until I secure one. I'm not planning to make a living at this right now, long term that would be wonderful but now I want to do it because I love it and it is a life long dream. As long as it doesn't cost me money and I can supplement my normal income I am happy. I hope that in the short term it will bring enough to go from full time employment to part time in order to devote more to it and to train myself.

- Are you targeting kids, or adults, families? I see it this way, I would love to do a family plan where either A. pay for 2 students and the rest are free, or B pay full price for one and 50% off for everyone else. I definitely want families to participate but I see that kids are where most of your student base will be, with this in mind I plan to have programs and awards which will inspire and motivate the kids, for my adult students I plan to have a more serious training program (not that the juniors won't be serious) but I am thinking not so many awards ( academic achiever, swat team, leadership team, etc) I was fortunate enough to start as a junior at 5 YO and then continue on into adulthood so I have seen it from both sides and as such I have tons of ideas which I think* will appeal to a broad range. So, to answer your question I plan to appeal to everyone but plan to have mostly children as that seems to be the norm in my area. I also though that I could add a few more belts to the curriculum to keep the kids interested and give them more to shoot for( while they move up the ranks normally, they would just have more belts to earn in between the normal ones)

Those are my ideas, I think I will have some trial and error on them and of course I have decades of experience at my disposal through my organizations senior instructors as well.

I think you also need to have funds saved up as a good proportion of schools actually lose mobey in the first 6 to 12 months before breaking even.

Again, here is my theory which may be wrong. At the moment I do not need to profit from it, thankfully I am at a place where I am not hurting to make a living. I have a full time job and another business venture that I am doing from home, so things are OK for me at this time. I HOPE that by starting out in rec centers and the like I will have very low overhead, if this is the case hopefully I can start to get ahead more quickly with the ultimate goal being to have a large enough student base to open a free standing location, or strip mall, or whatever. Right now I am wanting to take baby steps, I didn't want to open a place and then loose it and all of my money. So, I believe that by starting at places where I can hopefully just pay a percentage then I can come out good in the end.. That's the plan anyway.

[JR 137]

As a CRP/First Aid instructor, I strongly advise taking Red Cross's Responding to Emergencies over the standard first aid. Standard first aid is a waste of time IMO. All they'll teach you is to bandage some cuts and tie people's feet together if the break an ankle. Then they'll tell you not to do it if you're going to call an ambulance. It's for if you're out in the middle of the woods and need to drag someone out IMO.

Responding to Emergencies covers realistic stuff - broken necks and the like. Significantly longer and more involved course, but you'll be far better prepared for the worst. Re-certifying isn't nearly as long as the initial certification process.

Just my 2 cents.