The Game Plan of your martial art

[DaveB]

In particular I'm interested in the different strategies or game plans advocated/taught/developed by the various components and methods employed in your art.

In a word "Sente" (先手).

In Japanese budo this means to "seize the initiative" - in other words getting the jump on your opponent.

K.

So then, let me reply with a word: how?

By creating opportunity!

As Maybetrue has said - the real answer has to be felt, realised and experienced rather than told.

K.

If science can explain in words how the universe was created I for one refuse to believe that there is anything in martial strategy that cannot be explained.

Please don't think I am pressing you for more information, I am not. However I reserve my right to disagree.

[DaveB]

My own contribution :

Shotokan (non "traditional") - We learned to take angles when receiving heavy attacks and to try to press forward against anything else; to drive through with powerful counter strikes and joint lock anything that is either causing an obstruction or that has been left unattended.

Chung do Kwan Taekwondo - Evade and counter: Keep out of range and kick anything that moves into range, straight energy for intercepting, round for exchanges and clinch with anything that gets too close

Southern Tiger-Crane kung fu - keep square to the opponent, drive forward and work in close, use the waist and hands to deflect and generate power; forces coming at you are turned aside, angles are taken to support attacking. If their defence is good move to penetrating and disrupting structure before finishing shots.

[Kusotare]

If science can explain in words how the universe was created I for one refuse to believe that there is anything in martial strategy that cannot be explained.

Please don't think I am pressing you for more information, I am not. However I reserve my right to disagree.

I have no problem with people re-enforcing their knowledge through academic studies and research.

In fact, in some of the oldest Japanese traditions it is not only encouraged it is expected.

However trying to explain things like strategies of fighting on forums like this is a waste of time. They can only truly be learnt and realised in the dojo.

As far as my given systems are concerned, Reg Kear writes on his website about the stratagems and principles of Wado-ryu here...

http://www.sannoya.com/principles.htm

But it's a bit like learning how to be a potter or bowyer. Whilst you can read about how to do, the skill is only acquired through experience.

K.

[DaveB]

If science can explain in words how the universe was created I for one refuse to believe that there is anything in martial strategy that cannot be explained.

Please don't think I am pressing you for more information, I am not. However I reserve my right to disagree.

I have no problem with people re-enforcing their knowledge through academic studies and research.

In fact, in some of the oldest Japanese traditions it is not only encouraged it is expected.

However trying to explain things like strategies of fighting on forums like this is a waste of time. They can only truly be learnt and realised in the dojo.

As far as my given systems are concerned, Reg Kear writes on his website about the stratagems and principles of Wado-ryu here...

http://www.sannoya.com/principles.htm

But it's a bit like learning how to be a potter or bowyer. Whilst you can read about how to do, the skill is only acquired through experience.

K.

Surely the only person qualified to say whether a question is pointless or not is the person asking. After all you are presupposing much to make that statement.

I have no interest in learning wado, if I did I would not come here to do so. However I do have an interest in the various strategic approaches taken by different karate styles. I especially enjoy learning how these relate to kata. Hence the discussion.

The link you gave is a somewhat contradictory proposition: X can't be written about - here's someone writing about X...

That being said I see the details on that page as tactical elements, not strategic. Strategic for me would be the.guidelines about how and when to use/combine those elements in order to achieve victory..

[Montana]

Interesting, I've never heard that in relation to Shorin ryu before. Thanks.

Neither have I, and I've been doing Shorin Ryu since January of 1975! lol

Learn something new every day!

[Montana]

The idea of attack and defense being one is a main theme of Okinawan karate as well as several other systems of Chinese origin. "Blocks" are supposed to be used in that way and the purpose is not merely to stop an attacking limb but to attack it and render in useless to continue. This is why there is so much emphasis on limb conditioning.

Styles such as Uechi ryu and Goju ryu are the most reknowned for this feature and Shorin ryu to a lesser extent. In the era before and shortly after the Second World War, this feature(hardening of training was part all Okinawan systems.

Agreed...

[Kusotare]

I have no interest in learning wado, if I did I would not come here to do so. However I do have an interest in the various strategic approaches taken by different karate styles. I especially enjoy learning how these relate to kata. Hence the discussion.

The link you gave is a somewhat contradictory proposition: X can't be written about - here's someone writing about X...

That being said I see the details on that page as tactical elements, not strategic. Strategic for me would be the.guidelines about how and when to use/combine those elements in order to achieve victory..

It's a shame you don't have an interest in Wado-Ryu, we're not into Bunkai in the contemporary way of thinking as our paired kata is quite comprehensive.

You could possibly learn a few things that could help you on your journey.

Stratagems turn in to victory through application.

Application is realised through practice.

K.

[Maybetrue]

Paint A to Point B. straight line.

If anyone "CAN" trap,catch,shift,deflect,etc.. they should be capable of doing something EASIER like just getting straight to the point.

Simple,practical and just more scientific(fastest point to anywhere, a straight line.)

[sensei8]

Alas, if I may, sometimes a curved line is just as direct and short as a straight line. To the layperson, these lines become blurred and troubled. While I may transition straight at first, opportunities permit me to transition in an angle, thusly, to the target. To me, this option was the same as a straight line.

[Maybetrue]

Alas, if I may, sometimes a curved line is just as direct and short as a straight line. To the layperson, these lines become blurred and troubled. While I may transition straight at first, opportunities permit me to transition in an angle, thusly, to the target. To me, this option was the same as a straight line.

When teaching(or posting in this case) , i tend to speak to the the "MASSES". the masses can attain the concept of "straight line is easiest" while very few(talking 1% or less) can develop "shifting,torque,combo,angles,etc" to be an effective concept.

Sort of like watching Lebron james and trying to teach everyone to do slam dunks from the free throw line, why teach it when a hand full of humans can do it out of 8,000,000,000 on earth. The concept of dunking from the free throw line is possible but i rather teach doing "layups" as everyone can accomplish it.

I am sure a handful of humans on earth can catch a punch in mid full speed UNREHEARSED flight, but why teach that? Teaching unattainable concepts and techniques is honestly detrimental to anyone (IN MY OPINION).

I can try and do my Lebron Free throw dunks for my entire life time and NEVER EVEN COME CLOSE to doing it. "I just wasted my life time trying to be LEBRON".....

Disclaimer: Listen to your instructor over a random person(ME) posting on the internet.