How far can you take them?

[Lupin1]

We don't belong to a governing body as we are an independent school, but the US Isshinryu world is still small enough that most people can trace their lineage back to the original Marines after a generation or two.

My instructor was recently promoted to 8th Dan by a group of those original Marines (his original instructor, Tom Lewis, being one of them). The highest he's personally promoted anyone was 6th Dan for our two instructors who both started in 81.

The way we do it is in order to promote anyone to anything you need to be at least 3rd Dan and have gone through instructor training. Instructors (we have three of them at the moment) can promote up to 1st Kyu.

Shodan testing is done in front of as many black belts as can make it to the grading (usually at least three or four) but the official promotion comes from our head instructor.

Everything over Shodan comes directly from our head instructor.

Not quite sure what's going to happen when he retires. Most likely those 6th Dan instructors will take over and change things up a bit.

[sensei8]

Here's how it is the world of Shindokan!!

In-House/Dojo:

A Shodan can test a student up to Nikyu!!

A Nidan can test a student up to Ikkyu!!

A Sandan can test a student up to Shodan!!

A Yondan can test a student up to Nidan!!

A Godan can test a student up to Sandan!!

A Rokudan can test a student up to Yondan!!

Testing Cycles up to Nidan can be tested with or without a Testing Panel!! For Sandan and Yondan, a Testing Panel is required, AND a Rokudan MUST be on the Testing Panel!!

These above are for In-House/Dojo Testing Cycles, and this includes the Hombu, for students that training at the Hombu IS a regular basis!

Hombu:

Any and all ranks from Godan - Hachidan are conducted at the HOMBU with no exceptions, and there must be no less than 5 on the Testing Panel. The higher the Dan rank Testing Cycle, the more Testing Officers must be seated on the Testing Panel. This is to include, either the Kancho and/or the Kaicho being the Administrator of the Testing Panel, and often times, both are Administrating the Testing Cycle.

All of Testing Cycle Candidates must be approved by the Hombu; NO ONE TESTS WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE HOMBU...no matter the rank!!

[The Pred]

Here's how it is the world of Shindokan!!

In-House/Dojo:

A Shodan can test a student up to Nikyu!!

A Nidan can test a student up to Ikkyu!!

A Sandan can test a student up to Shodan!!

A Yondan can test a student up to Nidan!!

A Godan can test a student up to Sandan!!

A Rokudan can test a student up to Yondan!!

Testing Cycles up to Nidan can be tested with or without a Testing Panel!! For Sandan and Yondan, a Testing Panel is required, AND a Rokudan MUST be on the Testing Panel!!

These above are for In-House/Dojo Testing Cycles, and this includes the Hombu, for students that training at the Hombu IS a regular basis!

Hombu:

Any and all ranks from Godan - Hachidan are conducted at the HOMBU with no exceptions, and there must be no less than 5 on the Testing Panel. The higher the Dan rank Testing Cycle, the more Testing Officers must be seated on the Testing Panel. This is to include, either the Kancho and/or the Kaicho being the Administrator of the Testing Panel, and often times, both are Administrating the Testing Cycle.

All of Testing Cycle Candidates must be approved by the Hombu; NO ONE TESTS WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE HOMBU...no matter the rank!!

Are there any dojo's run by a 1st dan?

[Spartacus Maximus]

In larger governing bodies, schools run by shodan level instructors do exist. Usually though, they are not fully in charge as a higher level person might be. They almost always have support from the nearest senior instructor in the area and are closely advised while they continue their own advancement in training. it really depends on the rules of the governing body, but in some special cases it is possible.

[Luther unleashed]

I don't think rank should be the determining factor of when you open a school, I know a few first dans that ran programs as the head instructor at that school, while the testings work done through the head instructor at a stand-alone location. But either way, everybody's idea of what makes you a 1st 2nd or 3rd degree black belt is different so i say more power to any first degree black belt that step out and run a school.

[JR 137]

I don't think rank should be the determining factor of when you open a school, I know a few first dans that ran programs as the head instructor at that school, while the testings work done through the head instructor at a stand-alone location. But either way, everybody's idea of what makes you a 1st 2nd or 3rd degree black belt is different so i say more power to any first degree black belt that step out and run a school.

There are also shodans that have a lot of experience with other arts. Perhaps the shodan earned a 3rd dan in another karate style. Perhaps the shodan studied under a very knowledgeable teacher day in and day out.

A month before I graduated from college, a shodan opened a Shotokan dojo a few blocks from campus. He studied in Japan for 3 years under a very prominent sensei (why am I drawing a blank right now?) while teaching English. He earned a 3rd dan in kempo prior to going to Japan.

I visited his school, and he let me work out with him. It was very, very clear that he wasn't a typical shodan. He only had a handful of young students because he just moved to the area and opened his dojo about 2 weeks before I wandered in. He let me stay for free because he wanted an adult sparring partner and someone to learn non-Shotokan kata and other stuff from. He sharpened my Pinan katas, and I taught him Seiunchin and Sanchin. Had I not been a month from graduating and moving back home, I'd have joined his dojo as his student without hesitation.

As sensei8 says, and I quote too often, "the proof is on the floor." We were both shodans. He had more than enough knowledge and skill to run a dojo. I didn't. Rank is a personal thing. I didn't degrade his, and his didn't elevate mine.

[sensei8]

Here's how it is the world of Shindokan!!

In-House/Dojo:

A Shodan can test a student up to Nikyu!!

A Nidan can test a student up to Ikkyu!!

A Sandan can test a student up to Shodan!!

A Yondan can test a student up to Nidan!!

A Godan can test a student up to Sandan!!

A Rokudan can test a student up to Yondan!!

Testing Cycles up to Nidan can be tested with or without a Testing Panel!! For Sandan and Yondan, a Testing Panel is required, AND a Rokudan MUST be on the Testing Panel!!

These above are for In-House/Dojo Testing Cycles, and this includes the Hombu, for students that training at the Hombu IS a regular basis!

Hombu:

Any and all ranks from Godan - Hachidan are conducted at the HOMBU with no exceptions, and there must be no less than 5 on the Testing Panel. The higher the Dan rank Testing Cycle, the more Testing Officers must be seated on the Testing Panel. This is to include, either the Kancho and/or the Kaicho being the Administrator of the Testing Panel, and often times, both are Administrating the Testing Cycle.

All of Testing Cycle Candidates must be approved by the Hombu; NO ONE TESTS WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE HOMBU...no matter the rank!!

Are there any dojo's run by a 1st dan?

No! And there's no Nidan's either! Sandan is a minimum requirement per the SKKA By-Laws to fly the Shindokan flag.

A Shodan and a Nidan, if ever allowed, would require a Godan to oversee the floor. However, the dojo would be owned and operated by the Shodan/Nidan for the simple fact that the dojo is of that CI.

Now we're getting to the tricky part. if it were allowed.

1) The SKKA, the Hombu, refuses to interfere with the daily operations of said dojo; they've enough to worry about administrating the Hombu.

2) The SKKA, the Hombu, wouldn't authorize a CI to a Shodan or a Nidan per the Sandan minimum requirement to fly the Shindokan flag.

Sure, a Shodan and a Nidan can own and operate a dojo, that's their given right, but they'll not be permitted to fly the Shindokan flag, nor would they have access to the Hombu. In short, they'd be shunned!

Lastly, NOT MY RULES...Soke's Rules, and a amendment of that magnitude would require 100% in a vote. I don't ever see that in my life time. The Hombu's hierarchy, of which I'm part of, can't agree on the most simplest things at times; stalemates occur quite often.

[Spartacus Maximus]

All of this sounds familiar and there is much similarity to the rules in effect in the governing body I once belonged to. The rules were different for domestic and foreign dojo. In Okinawa and Japan, anyone below 5dan could not run a dojo. A 5th Dan also required approval from hombu and their own sensei to start one.

For foreign dojos, the minimum grade was 3dan but one needed to have approval and support from the senior representative, one's sensei, as well as supervision from at least a 5th dan.

Personally I believe 5dan is more ideal for starting a dojo. When I had reached my former 3dan I thought I was ready to run a dojo and had everything planned and written down to the last detail. A year into re-starting and relearning the exact same Shorin ryu showed that I was far from ready then. Another year and a half proved that starting over was a good decision.