ValeTudo Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 I haven't seen that...what happens? They flail around like two little school yard girls. Neither does much damage to the other, and neither shows any hint of actual technique. You can find it on https://www.bullshido.com -- go to downloads, then look around. You'll find it.
Drunken Monkey Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 but then that's part of the environment that the "fight" took place. it was supposed to be seminar. william cheung was not expecting to be jumped and it looked like emin was just trying to get cheung onto the floor. but anyway, back to the video from this post. you have to admit, the supposed wing chun guy didn't show any of the basic principles that even a beginner would be displaying. his elbow placement was all over the place, didn't spot a single punch aimed towards the head, no elbows, no footwork, no stance, just jumped in like a fool. maybe that was his problem, he was stupid. all slightly dubious to me... post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Kirves Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 but then that's part of the environment that the "fight" took place. it was supposed to be seminar. william cheung was not expecting to be jumped and it looked like emin was just trying to get cheung onto the floor. Actually, Cheung refused to fight several times. He was trying to hide the fight from his students. Emin first tried to get instruction (determinedly did every technique wrong) and when he didn't get any instruction but "good, you're doing okay" he yelled his challenge. Cheung tried to say "after class" but Emin said "no, now" and that's how it started. Nobody was jumped.
SaiFightsMS Posted July 26, 2003 Posted July 26, 2003 This topic has been discussed several times here in other threads.
Hohan-1 Posted July 26, 2003 Posted July 26, 2003 You only need and challenge your ego to remain imperturbable. WC and Kyokushin both have their strong and weak suits. If the Kyokushinkai guy asked for traditional bare-knucle karate rules, then no strikes were allowed to the face or head. As you can see from the video WC does rely on the use of speed and attacks to vital areas such as the eyes and throat. It's kicks are nonexistent and its throws and locks are rudimentary. It is a very minor form of Southern Chuan Fa, that is used for street defense, not ring fighting against accomplished athletes or karateka. Plus he sucked. From the looks of it, the adrenal galnd took over and it seemed like he didn't know how to control his aggression. Like he ain't never fought for real at all before. He was a lively little bugger! I think the diaphragmatic spasm caused by the uppercut gut shot did him in. He was probably soft as a marshmellow. In contrast kyokushinkai is a hard sparring, body conditioning style. On the street maybe WC guy would've faired better. In the ring he is fresh meat for practically every stylist I've known, from countless arts. He was wack!!!! I would've been ashamed to admit that WC boy was the opponent I defeated if I was Kyokushinguy. KnowhatI'mSayin'? I hope that those aren't what the WC forms look like. I had some fool trying to compare it to Matsmura Seito a few months ago. Yeah Matsumura Seito Extra-Light, with a lot of dilution and soft, feminine intent. It's like broke Naihanchi kata or something. I now agree with Bruce Lee's assessment of it. EWWWW!!! Traditional=EternalNidan, Hakutsurukan
Punchdrunk Posted July 26, 2003 Posted July 26, 2003 Hohan - you have hit on the key point - consistent hard sparring is what keeps that adrenal gland from overflowing. Like any stressful situation the more you approximate it and learn to operate effectively under it's contraints the better you will perform when it arrives. Train hard / fight easy One cannot choose to be passive without the option to be aggressive.
Prodigal Son Posted July 26, 2003 Posted July 26, 2003 PS, Thank you for engaging in a discussion about the subject. Most people don't. As far as the videos. I'm pretty unconvinced. You're right, this is training and it is on video (so who knows how many shots were taken). It's also on a non-resisting opponent which would, of course, make the techniques much easier to complete. Even the "sparring" was on a non-resisting partner with no real contact being made (you can see that in the slow-mo). I'm sorry, but everytime I've seen Wing Chun tried against a resisting partner, it's failed miserably. Here's a list of the Wing Chun fights I've seen: Wing Chun vs. Kyokushin (Wing Chun guy is knocked out) Asbel Cancio vs. Dave Beneteau (Wing Chun guy is TKOed) Dave Levicki vs. Johnny Rhodes (Wing Chun guy is TKOed) Scott Baker vs. Jason Delucia (Wing Chun guy is TKOed) Dave Levicki vs. Rickson Gracie (Wing Chun guy is submitted) Now, I know I know. NONE of these guys were "real" Wing Chun right? I'd really, really like to see "real" Wing Chun put to the test. If ANYONE has a video, I'd love to see it! Well, that's as may be Vale - and regarding the video I uploaded, I didn't shoot it myself and don't personally know the guys involved - but I do train like that and see enough people doing that stuff, so I doubt it was the result of countless takes and rehearsal. And of course we can't go all out in training, elbowing each other in the eye sockets and kicking each other's nuts - that would be pointless. But nonetheless I feel that anyone with eyes can see a marked difference in the energies and techniques of Victor, vs the clown in the original video. Regarding the list of fights you posted, I must confess I know little about any of them - I train to fight, not to be involved in competitions, challenges or 'scenes'. And WC works for me - I fight very regularly and rarely get hurt. So if someone is trying to prove to me that WC is a wack art based on a video of someone ELSE getting turned over, it just doesn't stand up. There are lots of McDojos doing WC and EVERY other art - and the world is full of crap practitioners of EVERY art. And loads of them have black belts and important titles - but they STILL can't fight. WC is no different. But I only fight when there are NO rules, and when I can inflict real injuries - like Ho' Dan says, we rely on speed attacks to soft parts of stronger opponents, so why am I gonna go in the ring with a Karate guy who is stronger than I am, and be bound by HIS rules? I'll only fight him to hurt him as badly as I can, as quickly as possible - not to win a stupid prize. We are not sportsmen. I dunno - maybe I'm the only good WC fighter on this green Earth (apart form my teacher). There Are No Friendly Techniques. (WC Motto) >>>PS<<< ------------------------------------------------------------------------Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Sifu Wong.
Drunken Monkey Posted July 26, 2003 Posted July 26, 2003 i'm just going to ask that everyone here disregard what was shown in the video. anyone with half a brain can tell that the so-called wing chun opponent was as good as a wet paper bag. and yes i know, there are no good videos of wing chun fights against other styles. maybe that's our fault. maybe we should just go out and fight. maybe i'll do it... when i'm good enough... post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
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