But sensei, when do I get to...

[JR 137]

There are dojos out there for everyone, even the instant gratification types. The "McDojos" (hopefully) inadvertently cater to these types - promote every 2-3 months, so long as the account is current and the test fees are paid. No need for mastery of technique (relatively speaking), just physically memorize it. Walk through a kata with minimal mistakes, and you'll learn the next one. No need to know why you're doing it in first place. Walk through kihon with minimal mistakes, no need for power, speed or timing. Just show you can do a high block with 2 hands without someone actually punching or kicking at you, or someone who'll throw the technique at a speed and distance where you'll never get hit.

Then there's the places that inadvertently cater to the slow and steady wins the race types. Learn one kata. Learn everything about it. Learn how to realistically use each movement in several different ways. When done with that, learn the next and repeat the process.

Then there's everything in between. Want a dojo where you go in and fight bare knuckle every class? There's a dojo for that. Want to never get hit? There's a dojo for that. Want to learn flashy jumping/flipping/spinning stuff that looks really cool? There a dojo for that. Want to compete? There's a dojo for that.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any of the places I've mentioned. Everyone's entitled to choose and enjoy their own path.

This is a very smart (devils advocate) thought process and I can't say enough how glad I am you said it. My response has a different approach though.

I teach mostly children and it's very difficult to teach kids to move gracefully, to have solid technique and so on. It's very much about the mental training for them at this point. I find the topic of the "standard" so intriguing. Here's why...

If I set my standard to how I want my students to look then I'd be bored because people would leave due to a lack of instant gratification or "frequent testings"! If I set the bar too low then I keep students happy BUT I have lowered the quality of each and every belt my students wear. As a person Wanting to teach, I want the bar high, but as a Head instructor who owns my Buisness and needs to make a living I am cautious of how high I set it because I want to remain open. The standard we hold reflects on us, but also is a very delicate line to our success. Balance is so important here. As to students getting bored doing the same thing to get better, and instructors not teaching in-depth enough because of fear of boredom and losing students... I work by this way of thinking, I trick them into the same techniques by selling them a different drill. Here's what I mean.

To avoid boredom I change how I not only rotate and come back to things to keep a fresh feeling, but I change how I teach it, this is what I think the key is to keep people interested, let me explain...

If I'm teaching a small kicking combination, such as rear leg roundhouse, set kicking foot down in front, rear leg axe kick, I may ha e them in the back of the class room moving across the gym until they reach the end (kicking drills as I call them)! A few weeks later I will teach the same combination, except I have them stay in their spots and do them with kick paddle or focus mits. Gives them different while practicing the same. For kids, occasionally I even do a relay race, running to the front wall and back to me, when back they need to execute the same combination before they tag the next person.

There are three very different methods of teaching the same kicks, and keeping them interesting. I find that it makes a big difference. In the end each person has a standard of their own, and it may change like the day, and that's ok, this is about you teaching what you want. If your happy with the product and the students happy with the product then it's a good product.

I agree with what you're saying. To kind of put it into different words, kids are kids. It has to be fun. It has to feel new and exciting to them. They have to be "tricked" into doing what's essentially the same thing a bunch of different ways. When kids get bored with something, you can't hold it against them; THEY'RE KIDS! Them wanting to do the next thing and not having the patience to master what they're doing is a blessing in disguise - that means they're eager to learn! It's hard to see it that way in the heat of the moment though.

As for adults, that's a whole other story. They want the instant results. Kind of like why weight loss pills are so popular, along with every other type of pill. Adults sometimes forget about the tale of the tortoise and the hare.

[Luther unleashed]

Good point. Yes I find adults to be lacking the desire for that "something more" then rank. I made a thread a while back for this very argument, it was something about "perceived rank" and how people don't get the deeper meaning smart times. I think we have also had the talk about kids classes as well. I isn't used to market for kids, in fact my personal dream didn't seem to have kids in it, just adults, but just seems to be my fortune. I have since embraced it as I see the depth of the impact, I hear it from many parents and so on.

I certainly have a right to a different approach though, and for me it's been a formula for success so far, I hope it continues though because after 16 years in auto repair and 9 short months running a program I can't imagine doing anything else haha! Time will tell and don't be mad sensei8 but "proof is on the floor"! We should make that famous!

[Spartacus Maximus]

Today in the dojo the only thing practised was front kicks....mostly with the left leg. For the entire two hours. Every step, all the details at different speeds. This is just the third consecutive session spent on a single technique or set of techniques.

This is probably only possible with semi-private sessions or small numbers of students. Obviously children could not be expected to keep up, but adults might also respond to this with frustration if this was done for longer than a couple days. Doing it for longer seems even more difficult.

[The Pred]

Today in the dojo the only thing practised was front kicks....mostly with the left leg. For the entire two hours. Every step, all the details at different speeds. This is just the third consecutive session spent on a single technique or set of techniques.

This is probably only possible with semi-private sessions or small numbers of students. Obviously children could not be expected to keep up, but adults might also respond to this with frustration if this was done for longer than a couple days. Doing it for longer seems even more difficult.

Seems like a great drill, I think this drill would be especially great for black belts.

[Spartacus Maximus]

The gentleman who teaches explained that this was how he had been trained in his native Okinawa by the master who taught him. He mentioned something to the effect that this was how karate must be done to really develop useable techinque.

Ranks or belts were of little concern, as most did not have any. Students trained every day, sometimes twice and the master would often teach only two or three things for months. Only after basics were understood and performed satisfactorily was any kata taught.

Then he said if he tried to teach exactly as he was taught, he might have maybe three regular students instead of a dozen, which is still a small dojo. Maybe that is a sign of our times and the general attitude.

[sensei8]

The gentleman who teaches explained that this was how he had been trained in his native Okinawa by the master who taught him. He mentioned something to the effect that this was how karate must be done to really develop useable techinque.

Ranks or belts were of little concern, as most did not have any. Students trained every day, sometimes twice and the master would often teach only two or three things for months. Only after basics were understood and performed satisfactorily was any kata taught.

Then he said if he tried to teach exactly as he was taught, he might have maybe three regular students instead of a dozen, which is still a small dojo. Maybe that is a sign of our times and the general attitude.

I believe that you've hit the nail right on its head!!

Curriculums are a plate full to deal with, nowadays!! Why? In the hopes of challenging our students each and everyday. Yet, even if your curriculum was as it was/is in Okinawa with teaching a few things for months, it's the quality of the instructions that would make the student not even think they were only being taught a few things for months; they'd be challenged in appropriate measures.

It seems that curriculums of nowadays are to match the upcoming testing cycle which is held once every 3 months, and todays dojo's want substance for a testing cycle. The appearance of normalcy!!

A typical Shindokan testing cycle will have anywhere near 30 items in the beginner ranks, then double in the intermediate ranks, then triple in the advanced ranks, then quadruple or more in the Dan ranks...and this is on an average, but the number of items tested varies as it's meant to over time!! 10th Kyu will do this many, then 9th Kyu will do a little more, then 8th Kyu will do much more, and so on and so forth all the way up to Hachidan. This explains why a some testing cycles take longer than others! However, our Soke firmly implanted into Shindokan that QUALITY was always at the core, and that QUANTITY is never considered!!

[The Pred]

The gentleman who teaches explained that this was how he had been trained in his native Okinawa by the master who taught him. He mentioned something to the effect that this was how karate must be done to really develop useable techinque.

Ranks or belts were of little concern, as most did not have any. Students trained every day, sometimes twice and the master would often teach only two or three things for months. Only after basics were understood and performed satisfactorily was any kata taught.

Then he said if he tried to teach exactly as he was taught, he might have maybe three regular students instead of a dozen, which is still a small dojo. Maybe that is a sign of our times and the general attitude.

I believe that you've hit the nail right on its head!!

Curriculums are a plate full to deal with, nowadays!! Why? In the hopes of challenging our students each and everyday. Yet, even if your curriculum was as it was/is in Okinawa with teaching a few things for months, it's the quality of the instructions that would make the student not even think they were only being taught a few things for months; they'd be challenged in appropriate measures.

It seems that curriculums of nowadays are to match the upcoming testing cycle which is held once every 3 months, and todays dojo's want substance for a testing cycle. The appearance of normalcy!!

A typical Shindokan testing cycle will have anywhere near 30 items in the beginner ranks, then double in the intermediate ranks, then triple in the advanced ranks, then quadruple or more in the Dan ranks...and this is on an average, but the number of items tested varies as it's meant to over time!! 10th Kyu will do this many, then 9th Kyu will do a little more, then 8th Kyu will do much more, and so on and so forth all the way up to Hachidan. This explains why a some testing cycles take longer than others! However, our Soke firmly implanted into Shindokan that QUALITY was always at the core, and that QUANTITY is never considered!!

My friends who does martial arts with me, kid also does it. Parents are making him take a promotion once a year, until he reaches 14-16 for black.

Furthermore, was your Kudan test, the longest and hardest test in the history of Shndokan?

[sensei8]

The gentleman who teaches explained that this was how he had been trained in his native Okinawa by the master who taught him. He mentioned something to the effect that this was how karate must be done to really develop useable techinque.

Ranks or belts were of little concern, as most did not have any. Students trained every day, sometimes twice and the master would often teach only two or three things for months. Only after basics were understood and performed satisfactorily was any kata taught.

Then he said if he tried to teach exactly as he was taught, he might have maybe three regular students instead of a dozen, which is still a small dojo. Maybe that is a sign of our times and the general attitude.

I believe that you've hit the nail right on its head!!

Curriculums are a plate full to deal with, nowadays!! Why? In the hopes of challenging our students each and everyday. Yet, even if your curriculum was as it was/is in Okinawa with teaching a few things for months, it's the quality of the instructions that would make the student not even think they were only being taught a few things for months; they'd be challenged in appropriate measures.

It seems that curriculums of nowadays are to match the upcoming testing cycle which is held once every 3 months, and todays dojo's want substance for a testing cycle. The appearance of normalcy!!

A typical Shindokan testing cycle will have anywhere near 30 items in the beginner ranks, then double in the intermediate ranks, then triple in the advanced ranks, then quadruple or more in the Dan ranks...and this is on an average, but the number of items tested varies as it's meant to over time!! 10th Kyu will do this many, then 9th Kyu will do a little more, then 8th Kyu will do much more, and so on and so forth all the way up to Hachidan. This explains why a some testing cycles take longer than others! However, our Soke firmly implanted into Shindokan that QUALITY was always at the core, and that QUANTITY is never considered!!

My friends who does martial arts with me, kid also does it. Parents are making him take a promotion once a year, until he reaches 14-16 for black.

Furthermore, was your Kudan test, the longest and hardest test in the history of Shndokan?

Parents are?? Parents don't run ANYTHING in the dojo, or they shouldn't be!! Imho, that decision lies strictly with the CI.

To my Kudan testing cycle...YES!!

[The Pred]

The gentleman who teaches explained that this was how he had been trained in his native Okinawa by the master who taught him. He mentioned something to the effect that this was how karate must be done to really develop useable techinque.

Ranks or belts were of little concern, as most did not have any. Students trained every day, sometimes twice and the master would often teach only two or three things for months. Only after basics were understood and performed satisfactorily was any kata taught.

Then he said if he tried to teach exactly as he was taught, he might have maybe three regular students instead of a dozen, which is still a small dojo. Maybe that is a sign of our times and the general attitude.

I believe that you've hit the nail right on its head!!

Curriculums are a plate full to deal with, nowadays!! Why? In the hopes of challenging our students each and everyday. Yet, even if your curriculum was as it was/is in Okinawa with teaching a few things for months, it's the quality of the instructions that would make the student not even think they were only being taught a few things for months; they'd be challenged in appropriate measures.

It seems that curriculums of nowadays are to match the upcoming testing cycle which is held once every 3 months, and todays dojo's want substance for a testing cycle. The appearance of normalcy!!

A typical Shindokan testing cycle will have anywhere near 30 items in the beginner ranks, then double in the intermediate ranks, then triple in the advanced ranks, then quadruple or more in the Dan ranks...and this is on an average, but the number of items tested varies as it's meant to over time!! 10th Kyu will do this many, then 9th Kyu will do a little more, then 8th Kyu will do much more, and so on and so forth all the way up to Hachidan. This explains why a some testing cycles take longer than others! However, our Soke firmly implanted into Shindokan that QUALITY was always at the core, and that QUANTITY is never considered!!

My friends who does martial arts with me, kid also does it. Parents are making him take a promotion once a year, until he reaches 14-16 for black.

Furthermore, was your Kudan test, the longest and hardest test in the history of Shndokan?

Parents are?? Parents don't run ANYTHING in the dojo, or they shouldn't be!! Imho, that decision lies strictly with the CI.

To my Kudan testing cycle...YES!!

True parents don't run a dojo. But customers overall do run it. Because as stated before, "

Then he said if he tried to teach exactly as he was taught, he might have maybe three regular students instead of a dozen, which is still a small dojo. Maybe that is a sign of our times and the general attitude." Which is a shame

[sensei8]

The gentleman who teaches explained that this was how he had been trained in his native Okinawa by the master who taught him. He mentioned something to the effect that this was how karate must be done to really develop useable techinque.

Ranks or belts were of little concern, as most did not have any. Students trained every day, sometimes twice and the master would often teach only two or three things for months. Only after basics were understood and performed satisfactorily was any kata taught.

Then he said if he tried to teach exactly as he was taught, he might have maybe three regular students instead of a dozen, which is still a small dojo. Maybe that is a sign of our times and the general attitude.

I believe that you've hit the nail right on its head!!

Curriculums are a plate full to deal with, nowadays!! Why? In the hopes of challenging our students each and everyday. Yet, even if your curriculum was as it was/is in Okinawa with teaching a few things for months, it's the quality of the instructions that would make the student not even think they were only being taught a few things for months; they'd be challenged in appropriate measures.

It seems that curriculums of nowadays are to match the upcoming testing cycle which is held once every 3 months, and todays dojo's want substance for a testing cycle. The appearance of normalcy!!

A typical Shindokan testing cycle will have anywhere near 30 items in the beginner ranks, then double in the intermediate ranks, then triple in the advanced ranks, then quadruple or more in the Dan ranks...and this is on an average, but the number of items tested varies as it's meant to over time!! 10th Kyu will do this many, then 9th Kyu will do a little more, then 8th Kyu will do much more, and so on and so forth all the way up to Hachidan. This explains why a some testing cycles take longer than others! However, our Soke firmly implanted into Shindokan that QUALITY was always at the core, and that QUANTITY is never considered!!

My friends who does martial arts with me, kid also does it. Parents are making him take a promotion once a year, until he reaches 14-16 for black.

Furthermore, was your Kudan test, the longest and hardest test in the history of Shndokan?

Parents are?? Parents don't run ANYTHING in the dojo, or they shouldn't be!! Imho, that decision lies strictly with the CI.

To my Kudan testing cycle...YES!!

True parents don't run a dojo. But customers overall do run it. Because as stated before, "

Then he said if he tried to teach exactly as he was taught, he might have maybe three regular students instead of a dozen, which is still a small dojo. Maybe that is a sign of our times and the general attitude." Which is a shame

I'd rather close the doors forever than to allow parents and/or customers to even think for a second that they indirectly run my dojo!! That'll never ever happen, and if I have only 1 student or 3 students, then so be it. I'm not selling my integrity to fill the floor!! And if I've no students because I won't let parents or customers or anyone for that fact, run my dojo, then I'll at least have one heck of a place to train at.

Edited September 21, 2015 by sensei8