Loyalty to one's instructor. What does it look like?

[cathal]

For me is boils down to mutual respect. Loyalty is something that eventually comes along after long periods of training. We aren't simply learning an MA either. We learn a lot about life and how to cope with stressful situations. This engenders a great deal of loyalty on its own. Respect and consideration is going to crop up as a result but it doesn't necessarily mean specific actions, in my opinion, occur as a result. For example lets say one MA student takes his sensei (etc) out for supper. This is both considerate but also social. Some may even view it as sucking up! LOL. But for the two of them perhaps its something more meaningful. For me I don't do things like that. I show my loyalty by always considering what I'm being taught and told by my sensei. Everything said during training has a meaning to it, and leads to more meaning and learning. Everything said outside of training may also have merit too.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Loyalty and how it is expressed depends largely on the type of social relationship one has with one's instructor. It can be as superficial as a customer or as deep as a filial bond. It also depends somewhat on individual personalities of both student and instructor. Filial type loyalty were and are most common in the past. Even in the cradle of most martial arts, these types of relationships are rare. In any case loyalty and the expression of it is something that develops over time. A student who has been training under the same instructor for a decade will have a completely different social relationship than one who started 6 months ago.

[sensei8]

Loyalty and how it is expressed depends largely on the type of social relationship one has with one's instructor. It can be as superficial as a customer or as deep as a filial bond. It also depends somewhat on individual personalities of both student and instructor. Filial type loyalty were and are most common in the past. Even in the cradle of most martial arts, these types of relationships are rare. In any case loyalty and the expression of it is something that develops over time. A student who has been training under the same instructor for a decade will have a completely different social relationship than one who started 6 months ago.

Solid post!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

The size of the dojo and number of students can also determine how loyalty develops. The one I attend is very small with a total of less than 25 regular students.

Weekend sessions are semi-private with five or less showing up and about three who are there each and every time. After training there are always some students who stay to have supper together and drink while discussing karate and anything else interesting. Very much a family-like atmosphere.

[sensei8]

The size of the dojo and number of students can also determine how loyalty develops. The one I attend is very small with a total of less than 25 regular students.

Weekend sessions are semi-private with five or less showing up and about three who are there each and every time. After training there are always some students who stay to have supper together and drink while discussing karate and anything else interesting. Very much a family-like atmosphere.

Solid post!!

Mid-Size and Large Size schools risk losing that intimate gatherings because the larger the student body, the more likely that one will get lost in the crowd, not ever having the moment of that intimacy that's more available with smaller schools. This too applies to governing bodies as well. I see this at our own Hombu, and I'm hoping to end that asap...however, Rome wasn't built in a day!!

Mid-Size and Large Size schools tend to break off in selective groups, and stay within themselves. Very few were allowed to go to the home of Dai-Soke and/or Soke, unless you were in that inner circle...that is a sad epitaph to Shindokan.

[IcemanSK]

The size of the dojo and number of students can also determine how loyalty develops. The one I attend is very small with a total of less than 25 regular students.

Weekend sessions are semi-private with five or less showing up and about three who are there each and every time. After training there are always some students who stay to have supper together and drink while discussing karate and anything else interesting. Very much a family-like atmosphere.

Very well said!

There certainly are a lot of factors involved, to be sure. Size of school, time spent, one's rank, etc. The expectations on a 1st Dan are not the same as those put on a 5th Dan. However, if one is a 1st Dan and the senior student of a relatively new school are likely to be different than a 1st Dan in an established program where many higher ranked students are present. In an established school, a 1st Dan still might not get any real one-on-one time with their instructor in order to create that bond. Loyalty could be a mere verbal assent, rather than an active pursuit. However, I have a hard time imagining someone at, say, 5th Dan or higher, not asiring to have a close relationship with one's instructor where loyalty is in the forefront of the connection beteen the two.

[sensei8]

The size of the dojo and number of students can also determine how loyalty develops. The one I attend is very small with a total of less than 25 regular students.

Weekend sessions are semi-private with five or less showing up and about three who are there each and every time. After training there are always some students who stay to have supper together and drink while discussing karate and anything else interesting. Very much a family-like atmosphere.

Very well said!

There certainly are a lot of factors involved, to be sure. Size of school, time spent, one's rank, etc. The expectations on a 1st Dan are not the same as those put on a 5th Dan. However, if one is a 1st Dan and the senior student of a relatively new school are likely to be different than a 1st Dan in an established program where many higher ranked students are present. In an established school, a 1st Dan still might not get any real one-on-one time with their instructor in order to create that bond. Loyalty could be a mere verbal assent, rather than an active pursuit. However, I have a hard time imagining someone at, say, 5th Dan or higher, not asiring to have a close relationship with one's instructor where loyalty is in the forefront of the connection beteen the two.

Solid post!!

Loyalty comes in varying degrees from student to student. Familiarity opens up many more doors, yet, the student if the one that chooses just how close one wants to become with the Instructor. The closer one wants to be with the Instructor, the tighter the inner circle can become!! This can feed the loyalty one wants to pursue at varying levels of acquaintance.

My dad wasn't in the picture much, if at all, as I grew up, and in that, Sensei, by attrition, became that father figure to me, and over time, my loyalty to Sensei embraced many levels. As a kid, I was quite impressionable, to a fault. And when I became an adult, that impressionism grew more as I saw him as the man that I wanted to immolate more and more!!

[bushido_man96]

Loyalty is honoring the structure and etiquette of the class and the school, and doing what you can to help the school.

[sensei8]

Loyalty is honoring the structure and etiquette of the class and the school, and doing what you can to help the school.

Short, but right to the point! I agree with you here, Brian!!

[Luther unleashed]

Great posts. Bushido_man short but sweet. I'm a loyalist by nature. My last place I was very loyal to, and pushed his Buisness like I was a dealer. Sadly there came a point where we didn't see eye to eye and I had to move on. No hard feelings, and I'd recommend him if there was something he could offer in which i couldn't, and there are things like Haidong Gumdo "Korean swordsmanship"!

To me loyalty looks like respect and even if I disagree with somebody and move on, it's still there.... That's what it looks like to me.