student_karateka Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Heian and pinan are the same, just different pronounciation. The kyokushin video should have all pinan kata regular and ura in it. Fast forward through what you don't need. I think it's toward the end. I thought they were different, like Heian Nidan is close to Pinan Shodan or something. Our style has us learn the Pinan series but I have previous experience with the Heians. The Pinan Shodan we use is very similar to Heian Nidan but that's all: there are several important differences such as we have foot stomps and the reinforced block facing away from front is slow and reinforced plus other differences...One main difference between Heian Nidan and Pinan Shodan is that when coming forward, Heian uses back stances and (at least our) Pinan uses catfoots. train hard!
JR 137 Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Heian and pinan are the same, just different pronounciation. The kyokushin video should have all pinan kata regular and ura in it. Fast forward through what you don't need. I think it's toward the end. I thought they were different, like Heian Nidan is close to Pinan Shodan or something. Our style has us learn the Pinan series but I have previous experience with the Heians. The Pinan Shodan we use is very similar to Heian Nidan but that's all: there are several important differences such as we have foot stomps and the reinforced block facing away from front is slow and reinforced plus other differences...One main difference between Heian Nidan and Pinan Shodan is that when coming forward, Heian uses back stances and (at least our) Pinan uses catfoots.You bring up some good points. The differences are due to different schools performing them, not the name. There's variation from school to school, some subtle, some not so subtle. But there's no distinct techniques in Pinan 1 vs Heian 1. Pinan is the Okinawan pronounciation, whereas Heian is the Japanese; Pinan and Heian have the same Kanji characters.
student_karateka Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 I don't know, Pinan Shodan has different stances, different arm position in a couple of places, two foot stomps that Heian Nidan doesn't have, a very marked change in tempo for the reinforced block on the way back, so that leans me to believe that while they are clearly both very similar to each other that their differences just go beyond variation among dojos; I think they are different katas but they're still both wonderful. Pinan Shodan is my tournament kata so I am partial to it though I learned Heain Nidan before.Now in terms of differences among dojos, let's look at the nukite on the way forward where the kiai is. Some people have their fingers totally straight as is taught in Shotokan while others bend their fingers in such a way that all four fingers are even with each other. That kind of difference I would chalk up to variations among dojos and would NOT consider that difference to be enough to make them be considered different kata.Plus I don't think there are any pinans that are like Heian Sandan. Not sure... train hard!
wayneshin Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Pinan and Heian are the same series of kata. They were developed by Antoku Itosu and many variations have developed. Both words mean Peaceful mind (okinawan and Japanse respectively). Gichin Funakoshi developed the Heian version and swapped Shodan and Nidan to reflect the order in which they are normally taught.
wildbourgman Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Plus I don't think there are any pinans that are like Heian Sandan. Not sure...In the Shorin Ryu style that I'm in we have a Pinan Sandan kata which is very close the Shotokan's Heian Sandan. WildBourgMan
sensei8 Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Plus I don't think there are any pinans that are like Heian Sandan. Not sure...In the Shorin Ryu style that I'm in we have a Pinan Sandan kata which is very close the Shotokan's Heian Sandan.Sounds to me that either of those founders, one or the other...or both, desired to have their 'Kata' unique to their new founded style. Separate to show themselves different, yet at the same time, still effective in the new changes. **Proof is on the floor!!!
wildbourgman Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Plus I don't think there are any pinans that are like Heian Sandan. Not sure...In the Shorin Ryu style that I'm in we have a Pinan Sandan kata which is very close the Shotokan's Heian Sandan.Sounds to me that either of those founders, one or the other...or both, desired to have their 'Kata' unique to their new founded style. Separate to show themselves different, yet at the same time, still effective in the new changes. Well the first three Pinan katas in the Shorin style I'm in are close to the same Shotokan Heian katas with the first two being flipped in order. The next two yandan and godan are very different between the two stylesEmpi (Shotokan) and Wansu (Okinawan styles) in these two styles are very different, although there are some techniques where you can see the connection. I love to watch all the variations of kata that are sourced from the same places but end up with so many different variations. It's kind of like following a story or gossip that gets changed from one story teller to the next and by the time is gets passed around the story is hardly connected to the original source. It's probably amazing that the different versions of kata are as close as they are. WildBourgMan
sensei8 Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 The variations add to the flavor of said Kata's; different ways to apply, so to speak, a view into the founders Oyo. Unique in this light, imho, is a good thing for all who are interested. **Proof is on the floor!!!
ineluki Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Hello. I have kyu test coming in 7 days. ...I know normal heian nidan but when i try to do it 'ura' i mess everything. Aren't you a little late there?
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