Question on the title Soke

[sensei8]

I don't think that the term "soke" is necessarily synonymous with a specific rank, like 10th dan, but it does appear to denote stature or position in a hierarchy.

Brain is right! However, Soke, being the founder, is awarded to only ONE person, alas, the founder. In Shindokan, Saitou Sensei was the founder, hence he was Soke. Then, Takahashi Sensei was awarded the Dai-Soke, hence the Second Headmaster, when Soke retired; Soke selected Takahashi Sensei to become the Dai-Soke...it wasn't up to a vote!! Then, Iwao Takahashi, Takahashi Sensei's son, was selected to become the San Dai-Soke by the Dai-Soke, his father.

Notice, there was first the Soke, then the Dai-Soke, then the San Dai-Soke, this was to differ one Soke TYPE from another. Having said that, we've no Soke types in Shindokan anymore; that titles been, well, retired permanently!!

A 5th Dan can be a Soke type because the Soke type is the primary exclusive representative of the governing body. In Shindokan, the Soke type WAS THE OWNER of the Hombu/SKKA; this became a problem in recent years passed, and it's not a problem anymore.

Who can represent the governing body and the student body best?? That's an important question; a question that shouldn't be taken lightly. So, yes, a 18 year old CAN be a Soke type as determined by the governing body hierarchy; it's highly unlikely, but possible. Can that Soke type be a Judan? Per that governing body, and its By-Laws, it would surely be true...per the By-Laws. Why our Soke wrote the By-Laws to read just that way, baffles me, but it was his choice to write it the way he wrote it, and I doubt that he even considered the possibility that "a 18 year old son of his" could become the next Soke type.

Very insightful, what was San Dai soke rank before he go it.

He was Hachidan, yet I was Senior to him via tenure, at the time of his appointment.

Interesting, do you find the skipping of ranks worse then a person earning a high rank at a young age, due to them starting martial arts at a young age.

What is a high rank?? What is a young age?? Both answer will vary from practitioner to practitioner and governing body to governing body.

But to answer your question directly, I find it worse to earn a high rank at a young age, as I understand a high rank and a young age to be. Skipping rank, is more acceptable, yet, it should be rare, if at all.

Governing bodies administrative rank skipping, Hachidan to Judan, is protected by the By-Laws of THAT governing body. And if the MA world views the ranks of Kudan and Judan as pure political, and that's ok with the general census around the MA world, then skipping from Hachidan to Kudan and Judan is ok too.

Imho.

[sensei8]

Keeping in mind that ranks are purely arbitrary and only hold significance within the governing body giving it, it should only matter to those concerned.

If rank is construed as a mark of prestige or privileged status with authority over other members, then there is inevitably problems when a person holding a rank is deemed unqualified or unworthy for whatever reason.

Solid post!!

Arbitrary is a good definition!! What the SKKA decides, and warrants, is perfectly acceptable across the board because they make all of the rules pertaining to everything that they're concerned with.

I agree with your second paragraph completely. Rank isn't AUTHORITY; the SKKA's Administrative, Executive, Legal, and Board of Regents Departments ARE the sole authority. Yes, to hold those elected positions, rank minimums are taken into consideration when one is considered for appointment. The lowest rank required to be considered for an appointment within the SKKA is Godan. The three departments above, are the hierarchy of the SKKA.

We've not many appointments within the SKKA that don't have a rank minimum, i.e., the Legal Department members are forbidden to become a student of the SKKA. Why? Soke determined that for the capacity that they must serve from time to time, it is best that they remain totally neutral and unbiased. Best way to do that is to not have a personal connection to the SKKA like a student would.

So, rank isn't authority, yet rank speaks towards experience. For example, to open a dojo, most CI's are at the rank of Sandan. Why? Experience. They've been on the floor teaching in one capacity or another ever since they were Sankyu's. That teaching experience is quite valuable. How so? Teaching unprepared across the board will close a dojo faster than one can blink. Experience. Godan candidates for SKKA appointments have quite a lot of experience as a Sensei and/or some other faculty within the SKKA. These rank requirements are mainly for those candidates that are wanting to become a Department Head/Leader, in that, they'll manage a team within that department. If you're just a department member, rank isn't an issue; heart is!!

Any one and everyone who's selected within the Curriculum, as well as the Testing Departments MUST possess a rank no lesser than Godan, for obvious reasons. Department Heads of those departments must also possess a Shogo Title as well to rank, which must be either Rokudan or Nanadan.

Only the three aforementioned Departments have sole authority within the SKKA!! EXPERIENCE!! Within the hierarchy, Legal Team excluded, there's approximately over 500 years of experience; that's a lot of experience.

In closing, there's also the categories of rank hierarchy; Administrative hierarchy AND rank hierarchy, both different, and both can be confusing to some, but not all. For example, rank hierarchy might mean, white>yellow>green>brown>Shodan>Nidan>Sandan>etc. A white belt can't learn the curriculum of a yellow belt until that white belt passes a testing cycle to yellow belt, and so on and so forth.

[The Pred]

Thanks everyone for the replies !