Karate, Wushu in the Running for 2020 Summer Olympics

[JR 137]

My father and both his brothers were TKD black belts in the 60's. Reportedly, their TKD was like a flashier kyokushin (less emphasis on thigh kicks, more on high kicks) but not as hard contact. They did plenty of contact, but not bare-knuckle. They grew up in Beirut, Lebanon, so that may have something to do with it. I've worked out with one of my uncles several times. After coming here, he took it up again 15 or so years later. He didn't last long, saying "That's not TKD, it's a tag game sport." I still mix it up with him every now and then. Me being 5'8 220 lb and him being 6'3 275, it's an interesting match up for me.

Thanks for sharing that; great points to absorb.

As chance would have it, I spoke more to him about it on Saturday, as it was his son's graduation party. He trained in the late 60s to 1980, when he came here. They did the spinning and jumping kicks (not to the extreme of today's stuff) in line drills and the like, but not during sparring. He said they did them for exercise, coordination, and flexibility benefits. They weren't looked at as combative techniques at all. They didn't wear the heavy chest protectors either. They basically wore what most karate schools wear today. They kicked high at long range, and threw lower kicks, knees and hand/elbow stuff at close range.

Taking TKD here around 2000-2002, he said no one in the dojang (correct Korean spelling?) threw punches because they said punches don't score points. His mentality of "I'm not here to score points" was why he left.

I don't know what goes on in places other than my immediate area and places where I've lived, but this is what I've seen from every TKD school I've visited. I'm not bashing TKD as a whole, because in college, I worked out with a few TKD guys who didn't go to sport TKD schools. What they said and how they sparred are along the lines of my family's experience.

Maybe it's just where I am and have been.

[sensei8]

My father and both his brothers were TKD black belts in the 60's. Reportedly, their TKD was like a flashier kyokushin (less emphasis on thigh kicks, more on high kicks) but not as hard contact. They did plenty of contact, but not bare-knuckle. They grew up in Beirut, Lebanon, so that may have something to do with it. I've worked out with one of my uncles several times. After coming here, he took it up again 15 or so years later. He didn't last long, saying "That's not TKD, it's a tag game sport." I still mix it up with him every now and then. Me being 5'8 220 lb and him being 6'3 275, it's an interesting match up for me.

Thanks for sharing that; great points to absorb.

As chance would have it, I spoke more to him about it on Saturday, as it was his son's graduation party. He trained in the late 60s to 1980, when he came here. They did the spinning and jumping kicks (not to the extreme of today's stuff) in line drills and the like, but not during sparring. He said they did them for exercise, coordination, and flexibility benefits. They weren't looked at as combative techniques at all. They didn't wear the heavy chest protectors either. They basically wore what most karate schools wear today. They kicked high at long range, and threw lower kicks, knees and hand/elbow stuff at close range.

Taking TKD here around 2000-2002, he said no one in the dojang (correct Korean spelling?) threw punches because they said punches don't score points. His mentality of "I'm not here to score points" was why he left.

I don't know what goes on in places other than my immediate area and places where I've lived, but this is what I've seen from every TKD school I've visited. I'm not bashing TKD as a whole, because in college, I worked out with a few TKD guys who didn't go to sport TKD schools. What they said and how they sparred are along the lines of my family's experience.

Maybe it's just where I am and have been.

Many Karateka's don't treat Karate as a sport, and will tell you that their type of Karate ISN'T a sport, and their quite compassionate about that fact. Shindokan isn't a sport, however, as one who's been training in Shindokan for over 50 years, I loved to compete in any open tournament that I could find. Yet, while my Sensei hated it that I and many others did attend tournaments, he accepted that that part isn't under his influence at all. He'd growl about it from time to time, but it was our choice alone.

[JR 137]

I don't treat it as a sport either. I competed in a few tournaments my first time around. My sensei was positive about them, as he looked at them as a good way to change things up. We competed in 2 per year, both were AAU tourneys. He held a 2 hour tournament training class on Saturdays after regular classes for about 2 months before the first tournament. my favorite parts of the class were the kata and conditioning. It was pretty cool how we video taped ourselves at the beginning, middle and end and seeing the progress. Truth be told, I don't think he cared much for the tournament itself; it was all about our progress and us having fun with it. Everyone was treated the same afterward, regardless of the outcome, and it was business as usual during regular classes.

Not sure if he still does this. He closed the dojo I attended and solely teaches out of his other dojo, which is about an hour's drive away from me. He's left the former organization and is on his own. Reminds me to shoot him an email to say hi.

[Doomed]

I'd like for Karate, Wushu, and Bowling to become Olympic events. Why? Because they're all awesome. And, to be fair, It'd help legitimize the art of Karate even further in my opinion. If Tae Kwon Do, Wrestling and Boxing can be given the Olympic treatment, why not Karate?

[Maybetrue]

ippon means 3 points . Japanese would be confused .

[sensei8]

ippon means 3 points . Japanese would be confused .

Ippon is 1 full point!!

[Maybetrue]

ippon means 3 points . Japanese would be confused .

Ippon is 1 full point!!

not according to the WKF.... they think ippon means 3 points.

WKF does not understand that if they are trying to get "KARATE" into the JAPAN GAMES, they should change some of the crazy terminology they have.

Example: Japan should take a sport like bull fighting and change all the traditions and terminology and try and approach Mexico/Spain with adding it to the olympics if mexico or spain ever host the olympics.

[sensei8]

ippon means 3 points . Japanese would be confused .

Ippon is 1 full point!!

not according to the WKF.... they think ippon means 3 points.

WKF does not understand that if they are trying to get "KARATE" into the JAPAN GAMES, they should change some of the crazy terminology they have.

Example: Japan should take a sport like bull fighting and change all the traditions and terminology and try and approach Mexico/Spain with adding it to the olympics if mexico or spain ever host the olympics.

Solid post!!

To the bold type above...Well, in that case, the WKF, then I stand corrected!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

Competing and sport matches are great, but what is wrong with it and what many traditionalists and purists dislike is the confusions and willful distortion of training purpose. If the purpose of training is to win a sporting match, then it ought to be clear.

Training for the ring requires a completely different method and focus from training for self-defense. Training one way for one purpose(sport or SD) absolutely does not prepare someone to deal with the other. Some aspects of training can and do transfer, but generally it is impossible to train for both at the same time and it is a great disservice to claim one is training SD when one is practising sport or vice versa.

[Maybetrue]

WKF(or whatever the name was prior) i feel had good intentions when first starting off, but has changed into a MONEY MAKING machine at this point similar to FIFA and OIC.