Bag work

[Judodad_karateson]

Does anyone here use heavy bags and speed bags in your training? If so, what do you do? Do you just work normal boxing work outs, or do you use a route specialized for karate?

[Wastelander]

I don't use a speedbag, but I certainly use heavy bags--I'm partial to the 6ft 150lb Muay Thai bags, myself. That allows me to work strikes all along the height of a human body, and the weight gives good feedback, although I wouldn't mind it being a bit heavier.

As far as workouts go, I mix it up. Sometimes, I just work stationary kihon-waza on the bag. Sometimes, I work techniques from kata on the bag. Sometimes I work sparring combinations on the bag. Sometimes, I tie a belt to the bag and work in joint locks. Sometimes I take the bag down and work sweeps, throws, and ground-and-pound with it. Just depends what I feel like working on at the time!

[CredoTe]

We make use of heavy bags:

1) Technique and power development - positioned in various stances to develop different techniques and the power generation that goes along with them.

2) Live training tool - we'll move it to the center of the training area, and have students move all around the bag while striking, kicking, "blocking" (receivers), etc to get a feel for constant motion while delivering techniques against an actual resistive object.

[hammer]

We have a heavy bag but it's mostly used for boxing/cardio type workouts. For class-specific technique and power drills we tend to use pads.

[Wado Heretic]

My general routine is to start on my Okinawan impact tools (makiwara ect.), which I then follow by doing individual Kihon Waza on a heavy free-standing bag, and then will move onto striking the air. I have found this to produce my best performance results regarding having good technique. Also, I will usually warm up with a 15 kettle-bell routine before hitting any thing. I will also do an hour of Kata training after this, and an extended flexibility session so as part of my general week I usually do these 3 times a week.

When I used to compete; I would do free-style sessions the length of the round I was expecting to fight plus 2 extra minutes, but would limit my self to 4-5 techniques and 2 combinations of said techniques. Between the rounds against the bag, I would do a "round" against a grappling dummy, and again limit myself to a set of techniques. I would also use the rules I would be competing under to guide my way of training; so for example SOMBO does not allow beyond 30 seconds on the ground so I would never exceed 30 seconds on the ground when training.

These days I run a similar exercise but instead I go by themes; what Kata and/or Kihon waza is my goal for the month. I just work a sequence involving my choice kihon-waza from the kata I am working on, and experiment with it for about 6 minutes. I also then work potential take downs and follow ups from said sequence with the dummy. I usually do about five rounds, with 60 second breaks, so take just under forty minutes usually depending on the quality of my time keeping on the day. Usually do this twice a week as my circuit training.

To explain my logic; research indicates it takes about 3 weeks for a new habit to form. So every month, I choose a "habit" I want to form regarding a kata and a basic technique, and although I do not neglect any element of my training, I place extra effort towards that habit forming. It might sound unusual but I find it works for me regarding improvement.

Speed bad drills are a bit more sophisticated as I do several but I am rather irregular with such practice unfortunately. I find resistance bands, plyometric exercises, and weight training contribute to my speed development and maintenance more.

I usually warm up by doing the conventional boxing drill designed to work the shoulders and arms before moving onto other drills.

A foot work drill I do is that after hitting the bag, I swap my front foot and back foot around, and attempt to strike the bag again before it completes a swing.

Sometimes I practice my stance changes, by performing a jab, and then a reverse punch but with a stance change. So say from side-viewing cat stance, to front-viewing cat stance. Try to keep a rhythm going as long as possible.

Another is to keep striking it with the same hand but changing the striking surface between each hit; so from a jab to a back fist to a hammer fist. I did once try this using closed to open hand and back but almost injured my fingers so I would not recommend it.

Last one, and I would only do this if you own the bag itself, is to do a jab, slide back to give space for a kick, and then get back into jab again before the bag completes a swing back and forth. I would not advise kicking the back as you will probably break it, but can try if you like.

[hammer]

Last one, and I would only do this if you own the bag itself, is to do a jab, slide back to give space for a kick, and then get back into jab again before the bag completes a swing back and forth. I would not advise kicking the back as you will probably break it, but can try if you like.

What kind of heavy bag do you work with? The one I work with at the dojo is plenty strong to handle kicks...my instructor has a very powerful gedan mawashi geri and he's never concerned about breaking the bag.

[Wado Heretic]

I was talking about a speed bag at that part of the post. If only I could brag about a kick able to break heavy bags at will

Saying that; have twice knocked hanging kick-bags and their supports out of the wall. Have also split open my oldest, and otherwise most reliable bag, but time had had it's toll on the material by then. So does not matter about the equipment; if a way for it to fail can be found, it will be found eventually, so take good care of it.

I suppose one should also discuss when, and how to use bags for training with karate. I generally follow 2 broad rules:

1. Karate is a self-defence discipline first and foremost; unless one is training for sport, one should seek to avoid the use of gloves where possible. This includes the use of bags, but one should only avoid the use of gloves with safe, fixed drills. Any free practice should involve the use of wraps at least.

2. Pay attention to the weather; cold weather will agitate any inflammation from striking objects. If it is warm then feel free to do traditional impact training, and fore go the use of gloves. If it is cold, avoid traditional impact training, and use gloves to reduce inflammation. Also, use some post-training treatment if one is hoping for longevity.

[Judodad_karateson]

I was talking about a speed bag at that part of the post. If only I could brag about a kick able to break heavy bags at will

Haha, reminds me of the JVDs introductory scene from Bloodsport! Yeah, speed bags are mostly leather encase balloons, I can see those getting busted pretty easily with a good kick.

[DaveB]

I tend to work from movement.

I start the bag swinging and try to keep my forehead as close to the bag as possible. As it swings back I use stance based footwork combined with head movement and torso movement to slip around the bag but maintain my distance. Then I start hitting. I use a full range of striking techniques from the boxing set to knees elbows and knife hands. The force of the impacts changes the trajectory of the bag which makes the footwork required quite challenging and the angles at which you strike unfamiliar.

[Wado Heretic]

I start the bag swinging and try to keep my forehead as close to the bag as possible. As it swings back I use stance based footwork combined with head movement and torso movement to slip around the bag but maintain my distance. Then I start hitting. I use a full range of striking techniques from the boxing set to knees elbows and knife hands. The force of the impacts changes the trajectory of the bag which makes the footwork required quite challenging and the angles at which you strike unfamiliar.

I just want to add that this is a good drill; especially for some one new to karate, and even those of us with experience. It is also a drill one can do with something called a Sagi-Makiwara (to some extent: it is less forgiving than a bag), so whether one goes down a modern equipment approach, or a more traditional approach it is a drill you can find useful throughout your training.

How I used to use it in the dojo was to start with foot-work drills alone, before expanding onto striking the bag, and would use set drills to get used to how the bag can change direction when it is struck in transit. For example; push the bag, move your back leg across behind you and pull your self across to the side, then hit it on it's side as it passes, and keep doing that while changing the direction of the dodge each time.

It is a drill I suggest you start getting used to with gloves, as it can be quite harsh on the hands when you start due to the weight and momentum of the bag. I would also advise against hitting it along it's line of trajectory, especially if it is coming towards you.