Meshing Different Arts

[hansenator]

I think combining styles can be problematic when each one uses a different type of structure or framework. For example: Karate has a certain way of standing and moving while wing chun has a different way of standing and moving, and you can't do it both ways at the same time.

If you look at an art like JKD, they draw from many different styles but everything is performed from a common structure. In a single exchange, they might use kicks from Muay Thai, trapping from Wing Chun, and throwing from Silat. The reason it works is because everything is done from within a common framework or "internal logic" so it blends together seamlessly.

This is true of traditional styles as well. The founder might have drawn from several different sources but it all fits together into a particular 'style' with its own specific way of functioning.

[Judodad_karateson]

I think combining styles can be problematic when each one uses a different type of structure or framework. For example: Karate has a certain way of standing and moving while wing chun has a different way of standing and moving, and you can't do it both ways at the same time.

Yeah, it does become an issue with study to styles that vying for the same stage and method combat. Like your would with Karate and WC, both and standing style relying mainly of the fists. I have found that to be true of Boxing and Karate. While they are more compatible and WC and Karate, I had to push some movements that feel natural out of my head in Karate. SOme movements have to be removed from the mental inventory and replaced with techniques that learning, or that you find for effective.

But this isn't true of all arts. Arts that use complete different types of combat, different stages of combat, etc, not only is it easy, but rather wise to cross train. Karate/WC/Boxing mixing with Judo or BJJ, for example. Strking/grappling combos are a good example of a crosstrain that works rather well. Its even better if your Striking art incorporates a few take downs or joint locks, as you are already use to incorporating basic grappling into your striking.

I don't advocate anyone go create their own art, but for a seasoned veteran of MA, it isn't difficult to create your own intern structure for the techniques you know, to have a personalize fighting style that works best for you based on everything you know.

[bushido_man96]

“You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.”

― Bruce Lee

Its more about the Artist than the art. Learn everything you can, and use what works best for your mind and body.

I agree with this idea, but it has to be kept in context, though. Its good to learn lots of different things, but its also good to try to get a good grasp on a concept first, experiment with it, and if you don't think it works for you, then look at moving on. Overloading with learning for the sake of learning isn't always a great idea.

[pittbullJudoka]

I'm with Bushido_ man on this only BJJ has bridged a lot of gaps to the Kempo I train in. It can't hurt to train in multiple styles.

[Luther unleashed]

“You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.”

― Bruce Lee

Its more about the Artist than the art. Learn everything you can, and use what works best for your mind and body.

I agree with this idea, but it has to be kept in context, though. Its good to learn lots of different things, but its also good to try to get a good grasp on a concept first, experiment with it, and if you don't think it works for you, then look at moving on. Overloading with learning for the sake of learning isn't always a great idea.

Yes I saw an interview where Bruce said you should develop a strong foundation in a style, because it give you strong roots. Can you imagine a white belt with no other experience learning 20 martial arts vs a white belt who focuses on grasping one set of skills and thought process? Also can you now imagine a black belt who is a black belt on one style yet is a white belt in many other styles? The many styles is a nice addition to the black belt, yet imho it's a distraction that makes things too chaotic for the white belt.

[ShoriKid]

Wager in Black Belt magazine advocated training no more than 6 months in another style. He argued that by then you would know everything you really needed to know from a style. He also had written that if you couldn't learn a technique and use it against a fully resisting partner in 30 minutes, it wasn't any good. I don't believe in either of those things being true and my experience is what led me to feel that way.

Training in another art can fill gaps in what you are doing. Or, has it has for me, caused you to look at your core art in a new light. Boxing techniques may not always jive with your karate in some applications, but it should make you have a new perspective on the way you do karate. American Kenpo techniques I learned from one of my instructors caused me to look at how I moved in karate. BJJ and wrestling flavor how I look at it's in close work too. It is the approach you take to training in multiple arts that can make all the difference. Having instructors that know what you are doing and know how to approach it helps quite a bit too.

[sensei8]

Wager in Black Belt magazine advocated training no more than 6 months in another style. He argued that by then you would know everything you really needed to know from a style. He also had written that if you couldn't learn a technique and use it against a fully resisting partner in 30 minutes, it wasn't any good. I don't believe in either of those things being true and my experience is what led me to feel that way.

Training in another art can fill gaps in what you are doing. Or, has it has for me, caused you to look at your core art in a new light. Boxing techniques may not always jive with your karate in some applications, but it should make you have a new perspective on the way you do karate. American Kenpo techniques I learned from one of my instructors caused me to look at how I moved in karate. BJJ and wrestling flavor how I look at it's in close work too. It is the approach you take to training in multiple arts that can make all the difference. Having instructors that know what you are doing and know how to approach it helps quite a bit too.

Solid post!!

[Judodad_karateson]

“You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.”

― Bruce Lee

Its more about the Artist than the art. Learn everything you can, and use what works best for your mind and body.

I agree with this idea, but it has to be kept in context, though. Its good to learn lots of different things, but its also good to try to get a good grasp on a concept first, experiment with it, and if you don't think it works for you, then look at moving on. Overloading with learning for the sake of learning isn't always a great idea.

Agreed. You need structure, otherwise its just a collection if techniques. You can have all the nuclear warheads in the wirld, but without a delevery system fir that payload, whats the point?

Some of these modern "street self defence" schools have this issue. They teach various movements and techinques without concern for context or flow.

You could know the freaking "Dim Mak", but if you dont have the fundamental combat skills to delevery the moves, at Junior Golden Gloves boxer will deflect it like any other body shot and knock you in thr jaw for your trouble.

[Alan Armstrong]

Martial artists like to mix things up. That is why fighting is called " mixing things up"

[Montana]

I consider myself a traditional "purist", inb the sense that I think my chosen art works just fine the way it is and really doesn't need to be messed with and changed....much.

With that in mind, I hve incorporated a little Aikido into my Okinawan Tuite, such as the front roll Aikido uses is IMO better and safer than the front roll that I learned from my sensei.

Otherwise, I don't think it's a good idea to train in 2 or more different systems and use techniques from both, because you lose the essense of each system as you pass it down to others eventually.

I do however, think there are quite a few systems out there that NEED to cross train in other systems, as they have many weaknesses which will get people hurt because they have no training in specific defenses.

I won't name systems, but I've seen many dojos that don't teach effective defenses against grabs for example, or how to move their bodies out of the way of an attack. Not to mention the absolutely rediculous, and horrible weapons techniques that are so prevalent now days.

My opinion of course.