Over/under estimated skills

[JR 137]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you leave the original teacher?

[Spartacus Maximus]

There are a few reasons, but none of these have anything to do with disagreements or any sort of conflict between my previous teacher and I. Since my early teens I trained the same style(Shorin ryu) with the same organization but under a total of 3 different instructors. The first reason for the switch was a change of residence due to work. It is my desire to learn the missing parts I had never been taught that led me to my new dojo.

[sensei8]

How'd you discover there were missing parts??

[Spartacus Maximus]

Practise and training essentially consisted of learning the kata by copying instructors and seniors. Little to no explanation of the movements was ever given. Bunkai and application of techniques from kata was rarely addressed. Kumite or partner drills was rare and when practised there was nothing mentioned about the links between kihon, kata and bunkai/kumite.

After learning all the kata in the syllabus I realized that I had but a very superficial understanding of what I had. What I had was just a collection of forms because I had no idea of their intent, no concept of their function.

It was as if I had been given a box full of tools with the name of each one but no instructions on their use or purpose.

[bushido_man96]

The teacher I graded to 3rd Dan under is the head of a major Shorin ryu association in Okinawa. My current instructor is also the head of another major association. His teacher and the one who evaluated me to 3rd Dan are both disciples of the famed karate expert Chibana.

Since starting under my current teacher I have forfeited that 3rd dan and continued to try my damnedest to forget and unlearn so that I can relearn with the pieces that were missing. This process is causing me much frustration and doubt of the skill level I supposedly have reached.

To the bold above, I say, try to put that behind you. There really is no use in dwelling on the past. Live life through the windshield, as opposed to the rearview mirror.

It sounds like you've had two different instructors with two different ideas of what and how to teach. Don't let that grind on you. Keep you head down and keep moving forward. That is all that anyone can do. After all, its a journey, right? Keep working hard, and don't sweat the small stuff. And as my dad once told me, "it's all small stuff."

Keep up the good work!

[sensei8]

Practise and training essentially consisted of learning the kata by copying instructors and seniors. Little to no explanation of the movements was ever given. Bunkai and application of techniques from kata was rarely addressed. Kumite or partner drills was rare and when practised there was nothing mentioned about the links between kihon, kata and bunkai/kumite.

After learning all the kata in the syllabus I realized that I had but a very superficial understanding of what I had. What I had was just a collection of forms because I had no idea of their intent, no concept of their function.

It was as if I had been given a box full of tools with the name of each one but no instructions on their use or purpose.

For a Shorin ryu instructor who rarely addressed any Bunkai...that shocks me to my core!! WOW!! I see where the missing parts are!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

Between what I did before and what I am learning now, there is a whole world of difference. It is amazing that it is the exact same system. Just a different association.

One thing that never sat right with me was the fact that all the kata bunkai and applications I had ever seen came from sources other than my instructor. Books, DVDs or seminars.

To become able to do something, it should be practised every time. Doing it a couple of times a month or once in a blue moon at a seminar is not enough! Why learn 16 kata without understanding how to apply the first one?

With all this in mind I am still grateful to my previous teachers. It is thanks to them that I followed the path towards where I am now. I cannot have any resentment or blame them.

[sensei8]

Between what I did before and what I am learning now, there is a whole world of difference. It is amazing that it is the exact same system. Just a different association.

One thing that never sat right with me was the fact that all the kata bunkai and applications I had ever seen came from sources other than my instructor. Books, DVDs or seminars.

To become able to do something, it should be practised every time. Doing it a couple of times a month or once in a blue moon at a seminar is not enough! Why learn 16 kata without understanding how to apply the first one?

With all this in mind I am still grateful to my previous teachers. It is thanks to them that I followed the path towards where I am now. I cannot have any resentment or blame them.

I can understand and respect that!!

[DaveB]

Spartacus, welcome to karate, at least as it is for most of us not lucky enough to live near a Martialy focused school of Okinawan lineage.

It is a bitter pill to swallow, realising that your training has gaps, but you are one of the lucky ones. You have been able to walk into a school where your needs are met. When I had the same realisation Geoff Thompson and Iain Abernethy had not published anything on the subject, there was no band wagon to join. By and large the schools around me are still focused on standard sport or budo based Karate to this day.

The only option when I was going through it was to train other styles and take the lessons back to karate myself.

The thing to bear in mind is just that you have not trained in two different schools with a break in between. You are one person training on one path continuously. Everything you encounter adds to that journey because it is all experience. What you are learning now may seem a million miles from the training before, but unless you used a different body it will all gel together in you in the end.

[Wastelander]

Your situation is certainly a frustrating one, but take heart in knowing that you became aware of a problem, and have taken steps to fix it! You may not have the same rank you once held, but you do still possess the knowledge and skills gained during that time. This is something you can really build on!

I have to say, as part of Chibana's lineage through Nakazato Shugoro, I have seen some of the same things you have. Out of Chibana's senior students, there are huge differences in the knowledge they have passed on, and how they pass it on. That said, there are definitely people within every system who know and can teach you what you seek, and there are people within every system who do not, and cannot. Be glad you found someone who does and can!