Over/under estimated skills

[Spartacus Maximus]

The experience of having re-started the same style under a different association and teacher has brought about this question, which has been troubling for quite some time.

Under my previous instructor and association I was evaluated and given a 3rd Dan. When I re-started the same style from zero with my current teacher I realized that everything I had been doing was either wrong or missing important parts. Since then, I have reached the level of first kyu but nearly every time it seemed to me that my skills were not good enough for the level I was being given. I trust my teachers judgement but I doubt my level is where what I have been given.

[Spodo Komodo]

I am at the beginning of a similar journey, I was a shodan about ten years ago and then I got injured and quit. Now I am back in a white belt and realising that a lot of things are either not quite right or look OK but don't really work. I am spending a far bit of time unlearning in order to re-learn. However, I don't let it get to me. Grades and skill evaluations are always subjective and if you trust your current instructor then you ought to give yourself the benefit of the doubt and trust your instructor's judgement as well. Of course having a critical eye turned upon yourself is an incredibly useful tool to have as long as it doesn't turn into loss of confidence. Once the seeds of doubt have been sown it is difficult to rebuild self-confidence but can you really be sure that you are trying to be a good 1st kyu (and obviously achieving that) rather than trying to be a 3rd Dan in disguise. If your self-image is three grades ahead of your actual level then you will always be disappointed. Relax and enjoy your achievement.

TL,DR - trust your sensei, accept your current level but always strive for self-improvement.

[sensei8]

The mirror can be quite truthful, even when not asked!!

How much time has passed between you being re-evaluated??

If you trust your teachers judgment, then what's troubling you??

It's a tough pill to swallow when one once was a Sandan, then after some time away, is re-evaluated to Ikkyu. That would require me to do some serious soul searching to see that it's me, and not my teacher, that's at fault. Accountability would start with me, and end with me!!

Different standards, teacher to teacher, might play a part in this. Not many governing bodies interfere with grading decisions; left at the discretion of the teacher. What was is no more; things change, as so do we.

Have you spoke your concerns with your current teacher?? If not, then do so, but with a modicum of respect.

[Spartacus Maximus]

The teacher I graded to 3rd Dan under is the head of a major Shorin ryu association in Okinawa. My current instructor is also the head of another major association. His teacher and the one who evaluated me to 3rd Dan are both disciples of the famed karate expert Chibana.

Since starting under my current teacher I have forfeited that 3rd dan and continued to try my damnedest to forget and unlearn so that I can relearn with the pieces that were missing. This process is causing me much frustration and doubt of the skill level I supposedly have reached.

[sensei8]

From what you're saying, it seems to me that different interpretations of Chibana are at hand, which is ok because students are suppose to surpass their instructors.

This process is causing me much frustration and doubt of the skill level I supposedly have reached.

I can understand and sympathize for what you're feeling. I ask again, was there a significant time spent away from the floor?? If so, and other things took precedence away from training, then it's possible that rust set in, if only for a moment. And when you were re-evaluated, that rust shown through.

Having said that, those same SKILLS and KNOWLEDGE are STILL WITHIN YOU!! They just need to be polished up to your current instructors expectations.

You'll be fine!!

If no time away from the dojo exists, then it's possible that your current instructors standards are far much higher than your former instructor. The polishing still needs to be done at your current instructors expectations.

You'll still be fine!!

Yes, it's a sad thing that you're experiencing, but what I know about your from your dynamic post here at KF, you'll work through this frustration and return to level that both you and your current instructor desire!!

I can never replace or duplicate what our Dai-Soke provided, and I'd never try because I'm not him. Yet, I've been polished by Dai-Soke to mimic his teachings and the like, but with a twist...my own experiences have been added to EVERYTHING that he taught me!! Even Greg's expectations might be higher than mine, and we're of the same lineage, and from the same governing body!! These things happen...let it go...train hard...even Harder...and the HARDEST than you ever have.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Chibana had at least five disciples who each formed their own association after he passed away in 1969. All of these men taught Shorin ryu on Okinawa within short distances of each other and mostly in the same city, Naha.

Anyway between the time I left the first association and restarted training under the new one I continued training independently and in another dojo for roughly a year.

Under my current teacher I restarted form scratch re-learning everything and being re-evaluated for each level up to 1st kyu.

[JR 137]

Very interesting situation. I thought you were going to say you'd been away for several years or more. While not training for a year seems like forever, in the grand scheme of things, a year is a pretty short time to be away.

Giving the benefit of the doubt due to both teachers' common lineage and experience, I'd have to say both are emphasizing different aspects of what they know/learned. Perhaps what one held as important, the other didn't think was relevant. Perhaps one thinks kumite skills are far more important than kata; displaying textbook technical skills are more important than getting the job done effectively or efficiently on the floor.

In your shoes, I'd have a lot of questions too. Not directed disrespectfully at either teacher, but questions nonetheless.

Don't doubt your skills. You've done what you've been asked and earned each rank. the way I look at it after a 15 year break is the rank doesn't make the person, the person makes the rank. Enjoy the process. I'm sure it's frustrating thinking why you weren't taught what you're currently learning, but contemplating that is an exercise in futility IMO. Easier said than done though.

[sensei8]

Very interesting situation. I thought you were going to say you'd been away for several years or more. While not training for a year seems like forever, in the grand scheme of things, a year is a pretty short time to be away.

Giving the benefit of the doubt due to both teachers' common lineage and experience, I'd have to say both are emphasizing different aspects of what they know/learned. Perhaps what one held as important, the other didn't think was relevant. Perhaps one thinks kumite skills are far more important than kata; displaying textbook technical skills are more important than getting the job done effectively or efficiently on the floor.

In your shoes, I'd have a lot of questions too. Not directed disrespectfully at either teacher, but questions nonetheless.

Don't doubt your skills. You've done what you've been asked and earned each rank. the way I look at it after a 15 year break is the rank doesn't make the person, the person makes the rank. Enjoy the process. I'm sure it's frustrating thinking why you weren't taught what you're currently learning, but contemplating that is an exercise in futility IMO. Easier said than done though.

Solid post!!

[Zaine]

How much time has passed between you being re-evaluated??

This is an important question that I think that we need to ask throughout our Martial Arts life. When was the last time someone took a look at where we are? What have we let slip because no one has caught it? I think that it is when we allow ourselves to go unchecked for too long that we lose control of our egos and our martial arts.

[Spartacus Maximus]

The one year until I made the switch was not exactly away from training. It was one year of solo practise without a teacher. Forgetting my previous 3rd Dan and any sense of accomplishment attached to it was not nearly as difficult as trying to unlearn and change years of habits.

Even now it is the biggest and most frustrating hurdle and I have yet to overcome it. I had always had a nagging suspicion that for one reason or another, my karate was missing important parts which I was never taught. Everything I am learning now are these details. Breathing, mechanics of movements, meaning and application from kata etc..