What are your thoughts about kempo/kenpo?

[Doomed]

Kempo: Generic term meaning "fist law"

Shorinji Kempo: The result of hundreds of years of Japanese influence on Kung Fu. Very karate-ish from what I've seen

Kenpo Karate: Kempo that traces its history to Hawaii

American Kenpo: Type of kenpo karate developed my Ed Parker and his students, popular on West Coast

Shaolin Kempo: Villari's art or descendent thereof. A mix of karate and kempo up through black belt, more Chinese (or at what Villari claims to be Chinese) post black belt.

In general, kempo has an emphasis on fast striking with the hand, close quarters fighting, and some basic jujitsu. Depending on the instructor and style, the focus on streamlined self defense varies.

I'm a huge kempo-geek so any questions you may have beyond this I should be able to answer.

An Addendum:

Okinawan Kenpo: From what I've come across, it's just a different term for Okinawan Karate

Ryukyu Kempo: Similar to above (alternate synonym for karate), but George Dillman calls his art Ryukyu Kempo as well.

Also: Kenpo and Kempo are the same exact thing. The n or the m different transcriptions of the same letter in Japan. Different styles pick different translations.

I've been wondering what variations of Kempo there were. Do these variations differ from each other in terms of theories and techniques, or are the differences strictly a matter of lineage?

[sensei8]

That's a good question, Doomed. I think that the different Kempo factions are more lineage than methodology. I don't see much differences, if any, when I watch and/or cross train with the various Kempo practitioners, and that might be that I'm not a formal student of any Kempo faction, and for that, sometimes to me, the little nuances are missed because...often times, to me, a fork is just a fork; an effective tool. And if I'm wrong, hopefully, vantheman will set me straight.

[vantheman]

Kempo: Generic term meaning "fist law"

Shorinji Kempo: The result of hundreds of years of Japanese influence on Kung Fu. Very karate-ish from what I've seen

Kenpo Karate: Kempo that traces its history to Hawaii

American Kenpo: Type of kenpo karate developed my Ed Parker and his students, popular on West Coast

Shaolin Kempo: Villari's art or descendent thereof. A mix of karate and kempo up through black belt, more Chinese (or at what Villari claims to be Chinese) post black belt.

In general, kempo has an emphasis on fast striking with the hand, close quarters fighting, and some basic jujitsu. Depending on the instructor and style, the focus on streamlined self defense varies.

I'm a huge kempo-geek so any questions you may have beyond this I should be able to answer.

An Addendum:

Okinawan Kenpo: From what I've come across, it's just a different term for Okinawan Karate

Ryukyu Kempo: Similar to above (alternate synonym for karate), but George Dillman calls his art Ryukyu Kempo as well.

Also: Kenpo and Kempo are the same exact thing. The n or the m different transcriptions of the same letter in Japan. Different styles pick different translations.

I've been wondering what variations of Kempo there were. Do these variations differ from each other in terms of theories and techniques, or are the differences strictly a matter of lineage?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject:

That's a good question, Doomed. I think that the different Kempo factions are more lineage than methodology. I don't see much differences, if any, when I watch and/or cross train with the various Kempo practitioners, and that might be that I'm not a formal student of any Kempo faction, and for that, sometimes to me, the little nuances are missed because...often times, to me, a fork is just a fork; an effective tool. And if I'm wrong, hopefully, vantheman will set me straight.

sensei8 is close. Generally, within a lineage, the methodologies and techniques are similar, if not the same.

I'm not as much of an exert when it comes to the Japanese and Okinawan styles of Kenpo (i.e. Shorinji and Ryukyu), so I'll stick mainly to Kenpo Karate for this reply. In the case of Kenpo Karate, all of the systems that trace their lineage back to the Hawaiian (William Chow's) Kempo Karate follow the same basic philosophy of mixing hard and soft, linear and circular strikes. They all focus on fast hitting (almost a wing chun type of approach at times) with the hands and some basic jujistu (wrist locks, trips, ect.) There is also a fairly strong karateish approach to striking (although some styles diverge from this once you reach black belt). Lots of horse stances, half moons, chambered hands, ect.

As you branch off from Chow, you see different people go in different directions with the system. While Kajukenbo and American Kenpo were both developed by students of Chow and are similar in nature and fighting style, the curricula are notably different (especially as you go farther down separate lineages). As you go father down a particular line, however, there is some degree of continuity. For example, Shaolin Kempo Karate's curriculum up through first degree black belt is composed almost entirely of techniques and forms found in it's parent styles of kempo (1-6 Kata, the first 20 or so combinations). This is due to the fact that Kenpo Karate is characterized by lots of its techniques and forms being created either on Hawaii or on the US mainland. Once the kempo karate forms and techniques were "created" at a certain point in history, all styles that fall underneath it generally will contain some version of that technique or form (especially if it is a lower-rank form or technique). Continuing with the SKK example, after 1st degree black belt (and more-so after 2nd degree), you begin to see forms exclusive to Shaolin Kempo. This is more of an example of the grandmaster of a particular style going his (or her) own direction with the system beyond the basic foundation. SKK then has its own off-shoots (one of which I'm a student), which follows the same philosophy, and has essentially the same curriculum, even if the combinations and forms may be performed differently. To put things simply, while all kenpo styles are considerably similar in their approach, strikes, ect., there is a difference in specific techniques (and, to a lesser degree, forms) that correlates to the distance to a recent "common ancestor" for lack of a better term. I could get deeper into the curriculum if anyone is interested (and illustrate the various places of origin, differences, ect.), but I think what I have said should give enough of an idea of the continuities and variations within kenpo karate.

In a broader purview, the curricula of Kempo Karate, Shorinji, and Ryukyu Kempo appear to be very different from each other, and are essentially different arts. While their may be some consistencies in basic philosophy, they are about as much the same as each other as any three randomly selected styles of Karate or Kung Fu would be.

As always, the type of instructor you have will also dictate the practice of the art just as much as, if not more than, the style will. My instructor likes to incorporate a bit of practical self defense and Kick-boxingy stuff into the training.

There are nuances between Kempo styles, but compared to the differences in instruction, they are generally not as significant as one might imagine, especially if both styles are a part of the same general art. Even within a particular kempo style there are tens of variations in how combinations and forms are done. Even within in the same dojo. It can get a little crazy at times.

[RW]

Oops, I didn't realize this was an older post. Sorry if my response is a little late!!

au contraire, it was a great, very informative post and I am happy you posted it (still reading though it though)

[RW]

Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind sharing, what type of Kempo are you studying RW?

it's called shaolin kempo, but I don't think it has anything to do with Villari (I'm in the east coast BTW). Here are some of its feaurtes:

- It does make mention of the 5 animals from time to time.

- black Gi

- belts go like: white, yellow, orange, purple, blue with black stripe across it, blue, green with black stripe across it, brown, 2nd brown, 3rd brown, black.

- has a concept of "center line", which means the strikes should come from your center line as that generates more power.

- at least in the lower belts there is A LOT of karate content to it. I have noticed that the higher students do have very un-karate forms and such.

- stances are karate-like (e.g. horse stance) but not as low or wide.

- they do weapons!!! (well, the advanced belts, anyway). They have some non-kobudo ones such as kali too.

- we bow differently from karate, we put our clenched fist at neck height and cover it with the palm of our left hand and bow.

[RW]

For example, Shaolin Kempo Karate's curriculum up through first degree black belt is composed almost entirely of techniques and forms found in it's parent styles of kempo (1-6 Kata, the first 20 or so combinations). .

Interesting!

How is your kempo 2, for example? In my school it's:

- half moon back, mid block

-spear hand to the neck

- shuto to the neck

- downward hammer to the head

[vantheman]

If it's called Shaolin Kempo chances are somewhere along the lines it can probably trace back to Villari. A lot of his students took the style their own way, but from what it sounds like, which is what your case sounds like (most of his offshoots don't really talk about Villari a lot because often there is bad blood somewhere along the line when you spilt off from Villari, or simply because Villari is a controversial guy to be associated with)

The Five Animals are something Villari initially brought into Kempo (once again, different offshoots of his style emphasized this at varying levels).

The black gi is a trademark of sorts for kempo. There are two different theories for this. The first one states that James Mitose (guy who brought Kempo to karate) wanted to differentiate his art from other Japanese arts. The second one says that because Kempo is a strictly war/fighting/killing art, it isn't pure and innocent, and therefore, a white gi would be inappropriate. More info on that here: http://bit.ly/1E4o7zs

The stick fighting came in earlier in the system in Hawaii. Adriano Emperado (the guy on Hawaii who most East Coast styles ultimately trace back to) knew escrima and added it to Kajukenbo (what he called his kempo style).

The belt system, progression from Karate to Kempo to Kung Fu-esque material, bow, weapons, ect. that you mentioned are all very typical of the East Coast kempo lineage (specifically some descendent of the Villari lineage).

The numbered (or some schools Belt level) "Kempo techniques" vary quite drastically between different Shaolin Kempo schools and organizations. Whereas the combinations are a central part of SKK curriculum across all schools (despite some minor degree of variation depending on the instructor and the school), the kempos, at least from what I have seen, seem to be something that can often be unique to a school. I do not believe they were initially a formal part of the SKK curriculum. Where I train, they used to have Animal techniques instead of Kempo ones (i.e. Tiger 3, Crane 1). Another school in our association used to have White belt kempos, ect. before they joined our association. Currently (and my style is considerably varied from SKK), we do not have any formal techniques aside from the combos, and focus more of a variety of other types of techniques (no great term for them).

Combination and forms may be a better means of comparing your style to mine.

[RW]

If it's called Shaolin Kempo chances are somewhere along the lines it can probably trace back to Villari. A lot of his students took the style their own way, but from what it sounds like, which is what your case sounds like (most of his offshoots don't really talk about Villari a lot because often there is bad blood somewhere along the line when you spilt off from Villari, or simply because Villari is a controversial guy to be associated with)

The Five Animals are something Villari initially brought into Kempo (once again, different offshoots of his style emphasized this at varying levels).

The black gi is a trademark of sorts for kempo. There are two different theories for this. The first one states that James Mitose (guy who brought Kempo to karate) wanted to differentiate his art from other Japanese arts. The second one says that because Kempo is a strictly war/fighting/killing art, it isn't pure and innocent, and therefore, a white gi would be inappropriate. More info on that here: http://bit.ly/1E4o7zs

The stick fighting came in earlier in the system in Hawaii. Adriano Emperado (the guy on Hawaii who most East Coast styles ultimately trace back to) knew escrima and added it to Kajukenbo (what he called his kempo style).

The belt system, progression from Karate to Kempo to Kung Fu-esque material, bow, weapons, ect. that you mentioned are all very typical of the East Coast kempo lineage (specifically some descendent of the Villari lineage).

The numbered (or some schools Belt level) "Kempo techniques" vary quite drastically between different Shaolin Kempo schools and organizations. Whereas the combinations are a central part of SKK curriculum across all schools (despite some minor degree of variation depending on the instructor and the school), the kempos, at least from what I have seen, seem to be something that can often be unique to a school. I do not believe they were initially a formal part of the SKK curriculum. Where I train, they used to have Animal techniques instead of Kempo ones (i.e. Tiger 3, Crane 1). Another school in our association used to have White belt kempos, ect. before they joined our association. Currently (and my style is considerably varied from SKK), we do not have any formal techniques aside from the combos, and focus more of a variety of other types of techniques (no great term for them).

Combination and forms may be a better means of comparing your style to mine.

This makes a lot of sense. I am learning so much

So does this mean that if one goes to a particular kempo school and then moves area, that person has to start again all the way from white belt?

[vantheman]

No, so long as the kempo styles are similar enough (i.e. you don't go from Shaolin Kempo Karate to American Kenpo). You may have to modify a few combinations and forms (and perhaps learn some new Kempos), but the base of the system is essentially the same.

[RW]

vantheman, this is all so interesting and knowledgeable, thanks so much

Are there any websites or resources you'd recommend to read more about kempo in general and shaolin kempo too?