Bunkai = Knowing How to Move?

[pers]

I will say that, technically, the word "bunkai" means "to separate and analyze." It is more commonly used to mean "kata applications," which isn't accurate, but hey, we aren't native Japanese speakers, right? From what I understand, if you ask most old Okinawan masters for kata bunkai, they will ask which section of which kata, and then break down exactly how and when every muscle and joint moves in that sequence. If you're looking at bunkai in that fashion, then "how to move" is EXACTLY what it is teaching.

If we're looking at bunkai from the Western perspective of being kata applications, it does seem that people often get caught up focusing on what the opponent is doing, which can be a bit of a hindrance. The concepts being applied by both parties are more important than the specific techniques being used by either party. In that regard, bunkai can teach you "how to move," I suppose, but "how to move," in this case, should still be within the context of self defense and fighting.

Kata bunkai is application of set of techniques and strategy for a particular situation that the particular kata is addressing , it is like a blue print for certain situations .

I have been learning to play guitar for the last 18 months ,it has been very challenging but perhaps becuase I had the experience of karate training and having gone through very rough rides since I found karate very challenging to learn ( perhaps it was my lack of aptitude but I think I was not any less able than avarage joe ) I used karate aproach to train in guitar ! , there are no short cuts in aquairing skills like playing the guitar or learning karate ,just correct aproach and dedicated hard work and practice , they say you need to spend 10,000 hours to master any skill .

skill is gained by hard work and correct procedure to learning , kata is like a piece of music and how you interpret it acoarding to your level of skill .

after 18 months of putting good number of hours of playing guitar I can play and sing one of Eric clapton's songs but can I play it like him or even half as good as people who can play half as good as Clapton ? of course not ! but I give a bit of the interpretation of the song meaning you know what song it is .

same priciple with kata , what my sensei does when he performs kanku dai and then show you possible application of what he was doing is much above what I can do or someone with 10 years less training than me but once you can have that master piece in front of you then you can aim to get as close as possible to it as you can .

kata is like possible scenarios that can happen in a fight , the more you do it and contiousely think of what and why you are doing it then you incrase your chances in kumite or the real thing .

the level of success depends on us and who has been teaching us.

[DWx]

If I can throw my 2 cents in... if I understand Davis correctly, he is describing the mindset taken in my school and within the style of Taekwon-Do I practice. Our tul (kata) are to be used as a framework for learning movement principles and transitions. Principles of stepping, power generation, body movement etc. which are to be applied to every move outside of the kata regardless of which techniques you chain together. Our mindset is that there is no need to practice and perfect endless scenarios, better to practice how to flow and chain together movement so that you can adapt to whatever the situation is:

Regarding knowing how to move....there is no time in a real confrontation to think, or practice rehearsed moves. You either react well or react poorly. Real confrontations are messy, attacks come in obtuse angles, one is often off guard or surrounded by objects or people...

This is probably why we struggle with the concept of bunkai or oyo bunkai as we just don't have this mindset with our training.

Now I'll go back to my corner in the Korean forums

[Davis]

Hi All

Thank you for your kind words and assertions from your own training. When we disagree that is comforting, because if we don't respect someone, we don't even bother to reply! So disagreements show respect and I enjoy hearing your views. I made a rather poorly thought out post on another thread and Patrick was kind enough to orient me on the atmosphere here, one of mutual respect. For that I thank him!

I would post a video of this in action from youtube, but somehow that misses the mark, because its a feeling more than something visible that I am after. To summarize, how I stumbled into this, after nidan I headed off on my own to train for many years to find my own karate way. I started relaxing completely and changed some of the kata to emphasize the cutting motion of iado/aikido instead of blocking and began to use my strikes as extensions of energy.

Then, after a few years of this, I stumbled upon the work of Shigeru Egami, the founder of Shoto Kai. His work resonated with me profoundly, like someone had read my thoughts and had travelled a similar path. He had an experience similar to Ueshiba, one of "enlightenment", a feeling of unity and connection with nature. This informed his training. His story is fascinating, he began as very hard core, built like Bruce Lee and a master of tsuki.

To not get too pedantic (nothing worse than some middle aged white guy waffling on about karate philosophy!), I found that simple relaxed movement made me feel good. I started to do kata to find a peaceful, enjoyable, comforting feeling. I then was asked to teach again to help support the Hombu dojo when I arrived back in Toronto.

This time I only focused on the softness of movement and the pleasure of movement. However, on the Muay Tai bag and the "Bob", I was hitting harder then I had before. Part of this is what my sensei had always admonished, relax, but it was a bit more.

So when I speak of Bunkai exercises, by all means we do many hours of attacking and defending, extracting movement from the katas! I am a huge fan of Bunkai, but this time, I found that only moving a few inches was sufficient and that I could practice Sen no Sen by making contact with my opponent. So its taking movements from kata and finding the movement vectors and resolutions. So striking is not striking. To clarify, D. Suzuki, in writing on Zen mind, states, in Kyudo, one does not release the arrow, it releases itself. This profound "not doing" but letting movement happen on its own is very difficult to articulate in Western thought. But it lies at the heart of Japanese archery, calligraphy, iado and other practices.

So Bunkai is real practice, they may well have a wooden knife in their hand, they may well be grabbing me for a double leg takedown, but how I respond is more soft, and harmonious. I believe this is what Egami was saying.

I wish there was a "like" button here, I would have pressed it several times in this thread. I share many of your thoughts.

Cheers!

[sensei8]

Just my penny worth, but, "we" already know how to move; it's the refining of the act, that still needs to be learnt, and then re-learnt for ones eternal MA journey.

[DWx]

So striking is not striking. To clarify, D. Suzuki, in writing on Zen mind, states, in Kyudo, one does not release the arrow, it releases itself. This profound "not doing" but letting movement happen on its own is very difficult to articulate in Western thought. But it lies at the heart of Japanese archery, calligraphy, iado and other practices.

Similar to wu wei (無爲)? Action without action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei

[Spartacus Maximus]

The most basic and simplistic idea of kata application appears to be prescriptive. To begin to understand the purpose of a given kata, it is important to realize that it is not just a collection of techniques where a specific attack must be countered by a specific defense. The chaotic and unpredictable nature of physical assault situation makes it impossible to know and spontaneously apply specific moves.

Instead, kata must be considered as a synthesis of principles. Each kata has a core set of principles of how to move. Specific techniques are but example of how these principles can be used and are not the only possible application. Once understood and internalized, a principle can be spontaneously applied to a specific situation. If a movement principle is applied correctly the technique will be viable and effective. In this sense, bunkai or analysis is learning how to move. The first step to deciphering a kata is finding the core idea and recurring movements.

There is a very good book on that topic called The Way Of Kata. I believe the author is Lawrence Kane. The examples are from Goju ryu but the ideas are applicable to any system with Kata

[Kusotare]

Interesting topic,

You will often hear practitioners of Wado Karate say "Wado doesn't have Bunkai" and to a certain extent I would agree - in that it doesn't approach the application of Kata moves and movements in quite the same way as Okinawan karate.

In his book Wado-Ryu Karate, Otsuka sensei wrote this:

"It is obvious that these kata must be trained and practised sufficiently, but one must not be 'stuck' in them. One must withdraw from the kata to produce forms with no limits or else it becomes useless. It is important to alter the form of the trained kata without hesitation to produce countless other forms of training. Essentially, it is a habit - created over long periods of training. Because it is a habit, it comes to life with no hesitation - by the subconscious mind."

K.

[LeighSimmsMA]

Hi Davis, thanks for your reply and it seems like Karate has been a very important and inspiring part of your life! Like I said earlier, I have no issues and I don't think anyone should have with your karate and how you decide to view karate. My main disagreement with you is what bunkai is. You said "bunkai is real", am I to think that you agree that kata have bunkai in the sense of actual fighting techniques, but you don't believe they would work in a real fight? Or do you mean something else?

You will often hear practitioners of Wado Karate say "Wado doesn't have Bunkai" and to a certain extent I would agree - in that it doesn't approach the application of Kata moves and movements in quite the same way as Okinawan karate.

What I find interesting about Wado People who say their Kata dont have bunkai, is that the Kata were around long before the style of Wado came about. The Kata were created with applications (the historically evidence confirms this). Additionally, Otsukas Karate instructors all have made written reference to bunaki in kata. For example both Mabuni and Motobu write about moving to angles in kata represent the angle to move against the opponent.

Additionally, there are many of Otsuka's students who have demontrated kata applications. Tatsuo Suzuki 8th Dan (taught by Otsuka) for instance produced a DVD that showed bunkai to certain kata (although I dont necessarily agree with his applications, it never the less provides evidence that the bunkai was part of Wado training).

In his book Wado-Ryu Karate, Otsuka sensei wrote this:

"It is obvious that these kata must be trained and practised sufficiently, but one must not be 'stuck' in them. One must withdraw from the kata to produce forms with no limits or else it becomes useless. It is important to alter the form of the trained kata without hesitation to produce countless other forms of training. Essentially, it is a habit - created over long periods of training. Because it is a habit, it comes to life with no hesitation - by the subconscious mind."

I always interpreted that quote to mean that the forms teach applications in a certain order and once they have been learned, we should go beyond the confines of the kata and use the principles that the techniques teach. By doing this you will "create/rediscover" many other techniques that whilst may not look like the movements in the kata, will still be effective in real combat.

In essence, instead of treating kata like a bag of tricks that can be only be used in one order - understand how (ie the principles of the technique) he applications work and this will create many more practical techniques that can be used in real combat.

[Kusotare]

What I find interesting about Wado People who say their Kata dont have bunkai, is that the Kata were around long before the style of Wado came about.

Indeed, but given the length of time that Otsuka spent with the likes of Funakoshi, Mabuni and Motobu - it is unlikely that he learnt any of said "bunkai applications" in any great depth.

I'm in the camp that Otsuka saw Okinawan karate as a vehicle to promote his new ideal of "Karate-jujutsu kempo" which - in a nutshell was Japanese Budo rather than Okinawan Karate.

The old " Pinch of Salt" quote springs to mind.

Additionally, there are many of Otsuka's students who have demontrated kata applications. Tatsuo Suzuki 8th Dan (taught by Otsuka) for instance produced a DVD that showed bunkai to certain kata.

Perhaps this is where terminology becomes skewed - but I saw what Suzuki sensei did a oyo (or Ohyo as they call it in Wado) that's not quite the same as Bunkai.

Splitting hairs maybe - but then there are also market forces at play.

If the Shoto, and Goju lot are doing Bunkai - then we all should!?

Fact is Otsuka propbably didn't have enough time to fully internalise the kata he learnt ( from an Okinawan perspective) and he probably didn't need to given his pedigree in Koryu Bujutsu.

K.

[sensei8]

What to move...When to move...Where to move... also support the How to move; hard to have one without the others, imho.