Are You Afraid??

[ShoriKid]

Any army that cannot withdraw will find itself on the spear points of it's enemy in time. Withdraw is not retreat and you have to know the difference, when each must be employed, learn to read the circumstances and make the correct call. Even the kata teach use that there are times when we must withdraw in order to achieve victory.

Always falling back, retreating and covering are signs of lack of confidence in technique, and often natural timidity. Most people in these times have been conditioned to not hit people. To be meek in the face of physical threats. Part of an instructors job is to break that conditioning. Teach the limits for use of force, to temper the aggression that a good karate must be able to use. Yakusoku kumite re-enforce this point.

We were trained to give ground when it was in our advantage, or to steal it from the attacker. But no more than a step before turning, off angling. You were to look for a stronger line of attack, gain advantage. If you were to cover up, we were taught you will still get hit, and you will lose. That there is no defense good enough to keep you safe. You must go on the offense at some point. Your enemy must be put in a compromised position by your actions.

[cathal]

Any army that cannot withdraw will find itself on the spear points of it's enemy in time. Withdraw is not retreat and you have to know the difference, when each must be employed, learn to read the circumstances and make the correct call. Even the kata teach use that there are times when we must withdraw in order to achieve victory.

Always falling back, retreating and covering are signs of lack of confidence in technique, and often natural timidity. Most people in these times have been conditioned to not hit people. To be meek in the face of physical threats. Part of an instructors job is to break that conditioning. Teach the limits for use of force, to temper the aggression that a good karate must be able to use. Yakusoku kumite re-enforce this point.

We were trained to give ground when it was in our advantage, or to steal it from the attacker. But no more than a step before turning, off angling. You were to look for a stronger line of attack, gain advantage. If you were to cover up, we were taught you will still get hit, and you will lose. That there is no defense good enough to keep you safe. You must go on the offense at some point. Your enemy must be put in a compromised position by your actions.

Well said!

[sensei8]

Any army that cannot withdraw will find itself on the spear points of it's enemy in time. Withdraw is not retreat and you have to know the difference, when each must be employed, learn to read the circumstances and make the correct call. Even the kata teach use that there are times when we must withdraw in order to achieve victory.

Always falling back, retreating and covering are signs of lack of confidence in technique, and often natural timidity. Most people in these times have been conditioned to not hit people. To be meek in the face of physical threats. Part of an instructors job is to break that conditioning. Teach the limits for use of force, to temper the aggression that a good karate must be able to use. Yakusoku kumite re-enforce this point.

We were trained to give ground when it was in our advantage, or to steal it from the attacker. But no more than a step before turning, off angling. You were to look for a stronger line of attack, gain advantage. If you were to cover up, we were taught you will still get hit, and you will lose. That there is no defense good enough to keep you safe. You must go on the offense at some point. Your enemy must be put in a compromised position by your actions.

Solid post!!

Please understand, our way is just a way, but it's our way. We do yield, but the circumstances must favor to do so.

[Kanku65]

Any army that cannot withdraw will find itself on the spear points of it's enemy in time. Withdraw is not retreat and you have to know the difference, when each must be employed, learn to read the circumstances and make the correct call. Even the kata teach use that there are times when we must withdraw in order to achieve victory.

So much truth. In Shotokan kata, we block going forward ONLY about 85% of the time. Our blocks lead into deflections which are followed by strikes. One does not survive to strike if they do not deflect the attack, one does not survive to deflect the attack if they do not first cover and move their center line. One never allows an opponent to strike them. We must always assume and BELIEVE that our opponent is AT LEAST better than us in EVERY martial way.

Sensei has provided me with accounts of himself warding off attackers with nothing but moving backwards using outside forearm block and rising block.

85% of blocks going forward means 15% of blocks moving backward.

(when I say forward and backward, I take into account forward and backward angled movements as well.)

Blocking while moving backwards would be exempt from kata if it were useless.

That being said, moving backwards in every case should only ever be tactical, and not just because it's what comes naturally. If you're going to move backwards, make sure that you have decided to go backwards for good reason, and have trained accordingly.

[sensei8]

While we DO yield, if need be, we highly strive to move forward across many transitional lines FORWARD, because it's our way. I agree on what's been stated about Kata, as it's involving our discussion here, and if I may, our interpretations is that, we don't go backward, if we can help it, and in that, it's in agreement with receiving any attack while advancing forward.

[jaypo]

I remember years ago, my old Shotokan Sensei said something to the effect that you cannot take more than 3 steps backward in any situation because you've essentially run out of room. In my current system, we move back only as a last resort. We get inside as much as possible, and this is achieved by forward movement. Even when we go "back", it's not so much back as it is at 45 angles or side angles. If I am not stepping towards the opponent, I'm trying to deflect his attack and get behind him. My C.I. always says that "Shorin Ryu IS inside fighting".

[wildbourgman]

I really like the idea of "receiving" rather than blocking. I also like the discussion of confidence and over confidence.

I have a definition that I use that separates confidence and arrogance because I think many people confuse the two. Arrogance is when you are confident but lack any evidence our logical reasoning that you should have any confidence at all.

In my opinion the quote "It ain't bragging if you can do it." is very true. In the similar but opposite vein if you know that your going to be beat prior to any conflict you should choose other means, including tactical retreat. I'm sure Sun Tzu probably speaks on that subject.

[hammer]

I find this discussion interesting...in the past few Kyokushin classes I've been to, the instructor has discussed options for creating more space from one's opponent without actually moving backwards. The assumption is that once one starts actually moving back, the opponent has the advantage.

I have yet to incorporate this into my sparring but it seems like a valid approach.

[Shotokannon]

I find that moving back can be an advantage if you can't tell where or what your opponent's going to strike with, but I much prefer to go round the sides or back; once they're fully committed and you slip them, they won't be finished striking by the time you've "Been and gone" so to speak.

[ShoriKid]

Any army that cannot withdraw will find itself on the spear points of it's enemy in time. Withdraw is not retreat and you have to know the difference, when each must be employed, learn to read the circumstances and make the correct call. Even the kata teach use that there are times when we must withdraw in order to achieve victory.

Always falling back, retreating and covering are signs of lack of confidence in technique, and often natural timidity. Most people in these times have been conditioned to not hit people. To be meek in the face of physical threats. Part of an instructors job is to break that conditioning. Teach the limits for use of force, to temper the aggression that a good karate must be able to use. Yakusoku kumite re-enforce this point.

We were trained to give ground when it was in our advantage, or to steal it from the attacker. But no more than a step before turning, off angling. You were to look for a stronger line of attack, gain advantage. If you were to cover up, we were taught you will still get hit, and you will lose. That there is no defense good enough to keep you safe. You must go on the offense at some point. Your enemy must be put in a compromised position by your actions.

Solid post!!

Please understand, our way is just a way, but it's our way. We do yield, but the circumstances must favor to do so.

I have meant to come back to this for several days, but the works has conspired against me doing so. Sensei8, I didn't mean any disrespect in my post. A bit odd a devil's advocate perhaps. All movement, positioning, must be to your advantage. Always. Whether to get off your heals, gain a better angle of attack of more advantageous position of power etc. Small or large, movement has to better us in our moment of need.

Do you ever do anything to restrict students ability to retreat or maneuver? We have in the past cut the "ring" to a 4 or even 2 meter square, had the other students circle around like an encroaching crowd, and even tired them together at the belt at arm's length. All to restrict movement and force close range engagements.