a weird pet peeve I have about martial arts

[sensei8]

I probably wouldn't train at a place which forced me to call someone 'sensei' or 'master' instead of a regular name. You're still the same person whether you'll train (with) me or not, and I already respect you on an equals-basis.

I can appreciate what you're saying! After all, we all put on our pants one leg at a time, for the most part!!

[DWx]

Just throwing it out there but does everyone call their physician "Dr... ". How about university lecturers "Professor ..."? General / Major / Sergeant? Reverend? Pastor? Senator? Governor? President? Can go on and on...

I think possibly we get all up in arms over titles because for most of us we don't do it in our day to day lives. In some countries, especially Asia, its very normal to use someone's title in everyday language. Sempai and kohai are terms that are ordinary on the school yard or in the workplace. Once upon a time in the Western countries it wasn't unusual to refer to a gentleman or senior as "Sir" or a lady as Ma'am" or even by that person's professional title. So why do we get so bothered by titles like "Master" or "Grandmaster"? These titles aren't for demanding respect, really just a job description and if sign up for a Martial Art that uses and believes in them, you shouldn't have an issue using them.

[Luther unleashed]

I grew up hearing master as a tittle so it's the norm for me. To me, it's strange to have an issue with it. I think it becomes very normal very quickly, I think you should never discount a place because they use titles. You limit where you can train and potentially miss a great place. As stated above me, in other countries this is very normal, open mind makes open doors. In korean martial arts "master" is used very frequently!

[Charlotte]

I have to admit that something about the term "Master" has always irked me. I have no problem showing genuine respect nor am I against formal courtesy, but there is something about the "Master" thing that I've just never been able to reconcile. I have used the terms Sa Bum and Sa Bum Nim, Sensei, Guro, Guru, and Sifu and never felt squeamish, but "Master" tends to lock me down in a way that is difficult to articulate. You have been around people at some point that either didn't like you, or looked down on you and you knew it by feel. You would find it difficult to tell someone else why you knew, but there is no way you can deny to yourself that your perceptions are valid.

I'm chiming in, not because I think I'm right and that the use of "Master" should be deleted, but to try and clarify to myself what it is specifically that makes me choke on the use of the term. I've done some serious training in my life, with some seriously good and intense martial artists and then seen people that I don't feel have done what I have, or achieved what I have achieved being called Master just because someone somewhere gave them another certificate.

There is a difference between calling someone Mr. or Mr. Adams. Mister Adams is appropriate and respectful, but just the use of the word Mister without the name feels inappropriate. 'Yes, Mister' or 'Yes, Mr. Adams'. 'Yes, Master', or 'Yes, Master Adams'. To me, there is a world of difference in this distinction.

[Spodo Komodo]

Just throwing it out there but does everyone call their physician "Dr... ". How about university lecturers "Professor ..."? General / Major / Sergeant? Reverend? Pastor? Senator? Governor? President? Can go on and on...

I am just imagining the world of hurt I would have been in if I had ever called my school house master "Lionel"!

As for titles, on the mat I am happy to use Sensei, Senpai, Kohei etc. but off the mat it is generally less formal. No different to calling my police officer friend "officer" when he is on duty and "Dave" when he is playing FIFA on my Xbox.

[sensei8]

For me, titles are nothing more than identifying labels, and not to be used in everyday settings. In the SKKA, we only address, and expect to be addressed by titles in formal settings as set forth by Soke!!

I'm no more important than the lowest ranking student on the floor!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

Comparing the title "master" with other titles does not seem fair or accurate. Titles such as "doctor" or "professor" or "Major" are used as forms of address in general everyday conversation everywhere or at least within their own social context.

While attending school all teachers were addressed as Mr or Miz. In university professors were called "Professor" or "Doctor". This was during class and anywhere on and even off campus. It would not be out of place or strange to call one's physician "doctor". Likewise for active or retired military being called by their rank.

"Master" on the other hand, is never used to address someone and those who would expect it or demand it are seen as very strange. It may happen in some places, but all of the people I have ever met who might deserve that title were never ever addressed as "master". Calling them that probably would have made them feel very strange indeed.

[sensei8]

Comparing the title "master" with other titles does not seem fair or accurate. Titles such as "doctor" or "professor" or "Major" are used as forms of address in general everyday conversation everywhere or at least within their own social context.

While attending school all teachers were addressed as Mr or Miz. In university professors were called "Professor" or "Doctor". This was during class and anywhere on and even off campus. It would not be out of place or strange to call one's physician "doctor". Likewise for active or retired military being called by their rank.

"Master" on the other hand, is never used to address someone and those who would expect it or demand it are seen as very strange. It may happen in some places, but all of the people I have ever met who might deserve that title were never ever addressed as "master". Calling them that probably would have made them feel very strange indeed.

Solid post!!

The word "Master" isn't ever used, past, present, and won't be in the future of the SKKA. Albeit, Godan is a point of training that a student is at the threshold of Mastering the Basics. Nonetheless, we don't address, nor is it in the SKKA language to address anyone of the rank Godan and up with a "Master" label. No "Master" Mitcham...No "Master Forsythe"...No "Master Saitou...No "Master" Takahashi...No "Master" surname whomsoever and whatsoever.

Imho, there's only one Master, and He lives on High!!

Edited July 27, 2015 by sensei8

[JR 137]

I don't call anyone "master" in English, I call them their title in Japanese. My CI's title is Shuseki Shihan. His wife is Sei Shihan, and there's a Jun Shihan.

If it was in English, I wouldn't look at it as calling them my master, as in they're someone high and mighty, I'd call them master as a rank. Kind of like chess master or master chef, master instructor, and on and on.

If you feel you're kneeling down to someone who thinks he/she's a god and demands to be called your master, find another teacher. Or ask them in a respectful way about how they view being called master. It may clarify something for you.

[DWx]

I don't call anyone "master" in English, I call them their title in Japanese. My CI's title is Shuseki Shihan. His wife is Sei Shihan, and there's a Jun Shihan.

If it was in English, I wouldn't look at it as calling them my master, as in they're someone high and mighty, I'd call them master as a rank. Kind of like chess master or master chef, master instructor, and on and on.

If you feel you're kneeling down to someone who thinks he/she's a god and demands to be called your master, find another teacher. Or ask them in a respectful way about how they view being called master. It may clarify something for you.

This is the crux of it. People are blending two different words Master the noun and master the adjective. The former meaning someone who is in charge of something and the latter meaning someone who has acquired a high skill level in something. They're not interchangeable.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/master