The Fullness Isn't Ours!!

[DWx]

The word "Ryu" (as in Wado-ryu, Goju-ryu or Shotokan-ryu) is a very interesting one here.

Of course it means school, but that in itself is not the full picture. Importantly (from a martial perspective), more completely it means stream or flow - referring to the natural transmission (or connectivity from teacher to student) of a said "tradition".

The word "kan" (in your case ShindoKAN) of course means house or hall, so again, perhaps comes with a certain degree of "keeping stuff under one roof".

Perhaps not surprising therefore that outsiders and things that may serve to disturb the flow of transmission are met with suspicion?

K.

To add to this, Korean styles use a similar terminology in "kwan" 관. Not only does this mean "building" or "hall" but it refers to those who follow a particular branch or lineage. Whilst there is some sharing among groups, the kwan you are from or lineage can be very important and some especially find it important to keep the original teachings as untainted as possible.

With regards to the OP, to play devil's advocate, what were your motivations for wanting to teach a seminar Bob? What would it have been on and what were your goals? Whilst I don't doubt your knowledge (that much is evident) maybe the school in question was suspicious of your goals. Was it to draw students away to Shindokan (an important question for a commercial school)? How would the school's instructors look compared to you? Would their knowledge and ability stack up? Maybe they didn't understand the value-add in having someone non-TKD teach something a little bit different.

At the end of the day it's their loss but I guess in this day and age someone offering to do a seminar for the sake of it may be received with suspicion.

[sensei8]

With regards to the OP, to play devil's advocate, what were your motivations for wanting to teach a seminar Bob? What would it have been on and what were your goals? Whilst I don't doubt your knowledge (that much is evident) maybe the school in question was suspicious of your goals. Was it to draw students away to Shindokan (an important question for a commercial school)? How would the school's instructors look compared to you? Would their knowledge and ability stack up? Maybe they didn't understand the value-add in having someone non-TKD teach something a little bit different.

At the end of the day it's their loss but I guess in this day and age someone offering to do a seminar for the sake of it may be received with suspicion.

My motivations were not malicious!!

My goals were not malicious!!

To spread knowledge across the great divide!! Why are seminars done to begin with?? Well, my intents are always good, and not bad, and I can't speak towards their reason(s) intelligently.

[Kusotare]

With regards to the OP, to play devil's advocate, what were your motivations for wanting to teach a seminar Bob? What would it have been on and what were your goals? Whilst I don't doubt your knowledge (that much is evident) maybe the school in question was suspicious of your goals. Was it to draw students away to Shindokan (an important question for a commercial school)? How would the school's instructors look compared to you? Would their knowledge and ability stack up? Maybe they didn't understand the value-add in having someone non-TKD teach something a little bit different.

At the end of the day it's their loss but I guess in this day and age someone offering to do a seminar for the sake of it may be received with suspicion.

My motivations were not malicious!!

My goals were not malicious!!

To spread knowledge across the great divide!! Why are seminars done to begin with?? Well, my intents are always good, and not bad, and I can't speak towards their reason(s) intelligently.

No disrespect, but why should I pick you to do a seminar?

Sure, you demonstrate a reasonable knowledge of Martial Arts on this board, but again, with the greatest respect, to an extent a lot of that information can be found in books, magazines and the web - as long as you know where to look.

Practical ability and knowledge is another thing entirely. In order for me to buy you as a service therefore, I would need to see you in action.

There are a lot of excellent martial artists out there that do seminars (some of my friends teach globally). But our time (and my dojo time) is precious, so we need to know we are investing our time wisely.

K.

[sensei8]

With regards to the OP, to play devil's advocate, what were your motivations for wanting to teach a seminar Bob? What would it have been on and what were your goals? Whilst I don't doubt your knowledge (that much is evident) maybe the school in question was suspicious of your goals. Was it to draw students away to Shindokan (an important question for a commercial school)? How would the school's instructors look compared to you? Would their knowledge and ability stack up? Maybe they didn't understand the value-add in having someone non-TKD teach something a little bit different.

At the end of the day it's their loss but I guess in this day and age someone offering to do a seminar for the sake of it may be received with suspicion.

My motivations were not malicious!!

My goals were not malicious!!

To spread knowledge across the great divide!! Why are seminars done to begin with?? Well, my intents are always good, and not bad, and I can't speak towards their reason(s) intelligently.

No disrespect, but why should I pick you to do a seminar?

Sure, you demonstrate a reasonable knowledge of Martial Arts on this board, but again, with the greatest respect, to an extent a lot of that information can be found in books, magazines and the web - as long as you know where to look.

Practical ability and knowledge is another thing entirely. In order for me to buy you as a service therefore, I would need to see you in action.

There are a lot of excellent martial artists out there that do seminars (some of my friends teach globally). But our time (and my dojo time) is precious, so we need to know we are investing our time wisely.

K.

The OP was a general post to engage a conversation. After all, this is what KF is here for; discussions. I used an example, about a TKD school to speak towards something that I've experienced, and THEY CONTACTED me, and they've contacted me many times, but they're not willing when I approach them. I'm fine with that; it's their choice!!

Pick me...don't pick me...it's your choice! I'm fine with that!! I can only present what Shindokan has to offer, then the decision is up to you. If you approach me, then it's my choice to accept or decline; it's my choice.

KF is here so that members can discuss in a calm manner! So, I shrug my shoulders when I'm told that my knowledge is basic, and it can be gained by uncouth means; akin to a slap in my face. I've nothing to prove to anyone, except to my students!! I allow the floor to decide!! Think what you might, and that's you're right!

Believe, don't believe, but I've been on the floor for over 50 years and it hasn't been as an on-looker/audience!! In that, if you saw me on the floor, you'd see that I possess the ability as well as the knowledge.

The final approval would be yours if I approach you!!

Respectfully!!

[DWx]

With regards to the OP, to play devil's advocate, what were your motivations for wanting to teach a seminar Bob? What would it have been on and what were your goals? Whilst I don't doubt your knowledge (that much is evident) maybe the school in question was suspicious of your goals. Was it to draw students away to Shindokan (an important question for a commercial school)? How would the school's instructors look compared to you? Would their knowledge and ability stack up? Maybe they didn't understand the value-add in having someone non-TKD teach something a little bit different.

At the end of the day it's their loss but I guess in this day and age someone offering to do a seminar for the sake of it may be received with suspicion.

My motivations were not malicious!!

My goals were not malicious!!

To spread knowledge across the great divide!! Why are seminars done to begin with?? Well, my intents are always good, and not bad, and I can't speak towards their reason(s) intelligently.

No disrespect, but why should I pick you to do a seminar?

Sure, you demonstrate a reasonable knowledge of Martial Arts on this board, but again, with the greatest respect, to an extent a lot of that information can be found in books, magazines and the web - as long as you know where to look.

Practical ability and knowledge is another thing entirely. In order for me to buy you as a service therefore, I would need to see you in action.

There are a lot of excellent martial artists out there that do seminars (some of my friends teach globally). But our time (and my dojo time) is precious, so we need to know we are investing our time wisely.

K.

The OP was a general post to engage a conversation. After all, this is what KF is here for; discussions. I used an example, about a TKD school to speak towards something that I've experienced, and THEY CONTACTED me, and they've contacted me many times, but they're not willing when I approach them. I'm fine with that; it's their choice!!

Pick me...don't pick me...it's your choice! I'm fine with that!! I can only present what Shindokan has to offer, then the decision is up to you. If you approach me, then it's my choice to accept or decline; it's my choice.

KF is here so that members can discuss in a calm manner! So, I shrug my shoulders when I'm told that my knowledge is basic, and it can be gained by uncouth means; akin to a slap in my face. I've nothing to prove to anyone, except to my students!! I allow the floor to decide!! Think what you might, and that's you're right!

Believe, don't believe, but I've been on the floor for over 50 years and it hasn't been as an on-looker/audience!! In that, if you saw me on the floor, you'd see that I possess the ability as well as the knowledge.

The final approval would be yours if I approach you!!

Respectfully!!

I think what Kusotare is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong), is what is it that you, Bob Mitcham, are offering that is different from other people who conduct seminars or that can't be obtained elsewhere? What's your unique selling point? And why should a dojo invite you to conduct a seminar?

I don't think it is a question of your knowledge or skill but what is it about you and your teaching that should make the previously mentioned TKD instructor (or anyone else for that matter) allocate time, and presumably money, to you. Is it in their students best interests to give up time to train with you? What would you be adding to the TKD training for example.

[sensei8]

With regards to the OP, to play devil's advocate, what were your motivations for wanting to teach a seminar Bob? What would it have been on and what were your goals? Whilst I don't doubt your knowledge (that much is evident) maybe the school in question was suspicious of your goals. Was it to draw students away to Shindokan (an important question for a commercial school)? How would the school's instructors look compared to you? Would their knowledge and ability stack up? Maybe they didn't understand the value-add in having someone non-TKD teach something a little bit different.

At the end of the day it's their loss but I guess in this day and age someone offering to do a seminar for the sake of it may be received with suspicion.

My motivations were not malicious!!

My goals were not malicious!!

To spread knowledge across the great divide!! Why are seminars done to begin with?? Well, my intents are always good, and not bad, and I can't speak towards their reason(s) intelligently.

No disrespect, but why should I pick you to do a seminar?

Sure, you demonstrate a reasonable knowledge of Martial Arts on this board, but again, with the greatest respect, to an extent a lot of that information can be found in books, magazines and the web - as long as you know where to look.

Practical ability and knowledge is another thing entirely. In order for me to buy you as a service therefore, I would need to see you in action.

There are a lot of excellent martial artists out there that do seminars (some of my friends teach globally). But our time (and my dojo time) is precious, so we need to know we are investing our time wisely.

K.

The OP was a general post to engage a conversation. After all, this is what KF is here for; discussions. I used an example, about a TKD school to speak towards something that I've experienced, and THEY CONTACTED me, and they've contacted me many times, but they're not willing when I approach them. I'm fine with that; it's their choice!!

Pick me...don't pick me...it's your choice! I'm fine with that!! I can only present what Shindokan has to offer, then the decision is up to you. If you approach me, then it's my choice to accept or decline; it's my choice.

KF is here so that members can discuss in a calm manner! So, I shrug my shoulders when I'm told that my knowledge is basic, and it can be gained by uncouth means; akin to a slap in my face. I've nothing to prove to anyone, except to my students!! I allow the floor to decide!! Think what you might, and that's you're right!

Believe, don't believe, but I've been on the floor for over 50 years and it hasn't been as an on-looker/audience!! In that, if you saw me on the floor, you'd see that I possess the ability as well as the knowledge.

The final approval would be yours if I approach you!!

Respectfully!!

I think what Kusotare is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong), is what is it that you, Bob Mitcham, are offering that is different from other people who conduct seminars or that can't be obtained elsewhere? What's your unique selling point? And why should a dojo invite you to conduct a seminar?

I don't think it is a question of your knowledge or skill but what is it about you and your teaching that should make the previously mentioned TKD instructor (or anyone else for that matter) allocate time, and presumably money, to you. Is it in their students best interests to give up time to train with you? What would you be adding to the TKD training for example.

To both, fair enough! Thank you!!

[Kusotare]

I think what Kusotare is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong), is what is it that you, Bob Mitcham, are offering that is different from other people who conduct seminars or that can't be obtained elsewhere? What's your unique selling point? And why should a dojo invite you to conduct a seminar?

I don't think it is a question of your knowledge or skill but what is it about you and your teaching that should make the previously mentioned TKD instructor (or anyone else for that matter) allocate time, and presumably money, to you. Is it in their students best interests to give up time to train with you? What would you be adding to the TKD training for example.

Yes, in a nutshell.

No offence intended.

K.

[cheesefrysamurai]

I think what Kusotare is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong), is what is it that you, Bob Mitcham, are offering that is different from other people who conduct seminars or that can't be obtained elsewhere? What's your unique selling point? And why should a dojo invite you to conduct a seminar?

I don't think it is a question of your knowledge or skill but what is it about you and your teaching that should make the previously mentioned TKD instructor (or anyone else for that matter) allocate time, and presumably money, to you. Is it in their students best interests to give up time to train with you? What would you be adding to the TKD training for example.

Yes, in a nutshell.

No offence intended.

K.

As much as I think I understand the point, the exchange of information in this fashion is commonplace and its how martial arts was perpetuated. More so to have someone as esteemed (not trying to inflate egos here) as a judan and chief instructor of a system, its safe to say something that they have something to impart.

If a known professional boxer wanted to give us a seminar on combinations, or a personal trainer, wanted to teach us better stretches to prevent injury, my teacher felt it appropriate and the price was right would may see value in it and let them do it. We don't say, "hahaha we have our junbi undo, we don't need you" or "hahaha we know how to throw a punch". Sometimes a visiting instructor highlights the differences in systems, demonstrates other theories. At the last gasshuku i attended a nidan in judo gave us a seminar on breakfalls and foot sweeps. Different instructors have different strengths.

Is the instructor done learning? Doesn't he want to grow too?

[sensei8]

I think what Kusotare is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong), is what is it that you, Bob Mitcham, are offering that is different from other people who conduct seminars or that can't be obtained elsewhere? What's your unique selling point? And why should a dojo invite you to conduct a seminar?

I don't think it is a question of your knowledge or skill but what is it about you and your teaching that should make the previously mentioned TKD instructor (or anyone else for that matter) allocate time, and presumably money, to you. Is it in their students best interests to give up time to train with you? What would you be adding to the TKD training for example.

Yes, in a nutshell.

No offence intended.

K.

No offence taken!! You made solid points, and I apologize for my misplaced compassions; it was wrong for me to do so...I'm sorry, Kusotare!!

[DWx]

As much as I think I understand the point, the exchange of information in this fashion is commonplace and its how martial arts was perpetuated. More so to have someone as esteemed (not trying to inflate egos here) as a judan and chief instructor of a system, its safe to say something that they have something to impart.

If a known professional boxer wanted to give us a seminar on combinations, or a personal trainer, wanted to teach us better stretches to prevent injury, my teacher felt it appropriate and the price was right would may see value in it and let them do it. We don't say, "hahaha we have our junbi undo, we don't need you" or "hahaha we know how to throw a punch". Sometimes a visiting instructor highlights the differences in systems, demonstrates other theories. At the last gasshuku i attended a nidan in judo gave us a seminar on breakfalls and foot sweeps. Different instructors have different strengths.

Is the instructor done learning? Doesn't he want to grow too?

The bold above is exactly the point. We are lucky in that in this day and age we have easy access to so much material, in print or online, and that nowadays it is easier than ever to get in touch with people from different styles and backgrounds to share information. If you wanted a professional boxer to come do a seminar it's now much easier to find and get in touch with one. Lots of seminars are now open to anyone and widely advertised too so there's always choice. You don't have to just invite someone to your dojo because you know them through a friend of a friend or because they happened to turn up on your door asking. You now get the choice of what it is and who you think will benefit you and your students the most. Time is a commodity and with greater networks and knowledge we get to be more discerning customers. It's not "we don't need you", it's what are you going to teach me?

Maybe it's just my experience but it seems like there is a seminar or workshop on nearly every other weekend I could attend. And I have done so and have trained with boxers, other MA, police self defense courses and of course plenty of great TKDer's... But with so many things going on and easily accessed you have to make informed choices about what you want to spend your time doing.

That's why there's the question of what it is someone (like Bob) is bringing to the table when offering to conduct a seminar. Maybe it is because I have my work head on (I work in sales) but I see it as you are selling yourself as a product when offering to conduct a seminar for a school and in order to convince people to train under you they should know what your unique selling point is not just the fact that you want to do a seminar. Kusotare said earlier "In order for me to buy you as a service therefore, I would need to see you in action.". And you are selling a service as such. That's not to say you can't learn something from every instructor, you can, and I'm sure we would all learn a lot from Bob, but why is it wrong for the earlier TKD instructor to decline a seminar if he personally did not see a benefit?