The Fullness Isn't Ours!!

[sensei8]

If one would dot a map of the world, from a MA aspect, one might see that some of the lands are bare, while other lands, and for the most part, would be riddled; it would be akin to a measles outbreak.

Nonetheless, MA styles, and their practitioners, instead of being close to our MA brothers and sisters, we're estranged from one another...willingly. Our MA closeness to our fellow MAist is foreboding; we're more seen as enemies than as tightknit brothers and sisters. That, imho, is how it was meant to be from the beginning, the tightknit relationships, but we've turned our backs upon one another.

We shy away from one another, instead of seeking out one another so that we can learn from one another. Fear, I believe, has made us this way. Fear that someone will take what we have, and abuse that which we once shared in the kindred spirit of our betterment.

Even within the intimate inner circle that shapes the styles and/or the governing body, we quickly turn to ourselves, and not to each other. Shindokan history is marred ever since our Soke and Dai-Soke passed away; we literally tore ourselves in asunder for various reasons; therefore, our fullness wasn't our anymore. That, fortunately was then, but not now!!

Practitioners from the same style, but not the same dojo, under the same governing body, are suspicious of one another to a fault. They might allow you this and that, but it'll be measured out in small micro portions, if at all. Suspicious feelings are the architect of many walls; and some walls are so dense, nothing can penetrate, if at all.

Time! Time, is said, to heal all wounds. But, that depends! Time can also fester, and make the wound inoperative. Over time!! Over time!! Finding just the right medicine can be a difficult search; quite impossible to overcome.

Try to breach the distance from differing style to differing style: that, my friend, can be a daunting process. Many speak about being eclectic, but putting that desire into a functional process is another thing. Yes, many styles have successfully made that transition, yet, there are more unwilling than not.

You want tomatoes? Well, you better go to the tomatoes vendor, and not to the banana vendor. I've more success in visiting Shindokan dojo's than I do, for example, from wanting to visit a TKD dojang. Even if I'm well known from that TKD dojang, their floor is off limits to me!!

This, I've seen it for myself with my own eyes when styles visiting other differing styles, propaganda isn't a thing of the past; it's alive and well...STILL!

The last time I tried to visit an opposing style of the MA, I was shot down. They knew my credentials, yet, when the subject of me doing a seminar at their school came up, I was denied. Reason given: "We're TKD, and you're not!!" This was an ATA school, and again, we had known each other for over 11 years...their floor was forbidden.

So much for being eclectic! So much for exchanging ideas and the like for the betterment of all concerned! So much for being an understanding compromise! So much for sharing! So much for the fullness! So much for the open-floor policy! So much for...well...nothing!!

The lack of trust will never die. I've conducted seminars outside of the Shindokan circle, but I was approached by the interested school. Initiate a seminar by myself; I'm treated like I was the host of some plague...and this is from schools that had invited me to their school to conduct a seminar many times. It's the old saying..."Don't call us, we'll call you!", and this can be, and is, at times, quite frustrating to no end.

The fullness isn't ours...anymore.

Judgment between opposing styles of the MA are rendered unkindly before having experienced any negative vibes from the visiting style/Instructor!! Judge lest you be judged, but I don't judge...my floor has always been open to every style and every practitioner with reservation!! Shindokan, on its own, is incomplete; so is every other style of the MA, and that's why I extend that olive branch. However, UNTIL/UNLESS actions of the visiting instructor warrants otherwise. Start teaching things or ways that I feel are harmful to my students, I'll ask that that instructor to never return.

We're suppose to be MAists, and we are, but, in the scope of bipartisanship between styles/governing bodies, I fear wholeheartedly that it'll never improve for the sake of ones MA betterment.

We MAists, as well as the style and/or governing body, are more akin like two ships that pass through the night; never acknowledging the other. Not a nod, and rarely a handshake.

Imho...based on my experiences!!

Any thoughts?

Edited February 22, 2015 by sensei8

[Spodo Komodo]

Anything that involves human relationships, such as politics, religion or sport will naturally involve people forming hierarchies based on prejudice. We all do it -I may regard another Shotokan or Wado Karateka as an equal but I would be suspicious of a GKR Karateka until they had allayed my suspicions in the dojo. It can be regrettable but to some extent it is a defence mechanism; McDojos only manage to operate by getting people who have yet to form such prejudices and hierarchies.

[sensei8]

Anything that involves human relationships, such as politics, religion or sport will naturally involve people forming hierarchies based on prejudice. We all do it -I may regard another Shotokan or Wado Karateka as an equal but I would be suspicious of a GKR Karateka until they had allayed my suspicions in the dojo. It can be regrettable but to some extent it is a defence mechanism; McDojos only manage to operate by getting people who have yet to form such prejudices and hierarchies.

Solid post!!

You're points are keen, and exacting. That defense mechanism is proven through and through, and I suppose, all that I can do is wish that it wasn't so to what I've experienced.

I suppose, the more noted the MA instructor is, the wider the doors become more inviting. Having said that, I'm well noted in the local area that I just moved from, but even that, the doors were one-way, and not always in my favor!!

[chiliphil1]

Even if I'm well known from that TKD dojang, their floor is off limits to me!!

This is unbelievable to me. If someone with your experience and credentials offered to come to my school (if I had one) I wouldn't care if you taught how to dance like Britney Spears I would find myself a red carpet and roll it out.

This to me is like saying that the chief of naval operations cannot visit an air craft carrier because he was a submariner and it makes absolutely no sense.

If this school is passing the opportunity to have a 9th dan visit and share wisdom then I cannot give them much credit for sense!

I hate to say this because it makes me fit your stereotype but I find that the schools that do this are generally TKD and oftentimes ATA.. I don't think there is anything wrong with them directly but I believe this is the result of the schools being ran like a Wal-mart you want to make sure the shoppers don't see the other store's sales papers at any cost.

[bushido_man96]

I think issues like this will continue to be the norm as opposed to changing anytime soon. But I wouldn't say the result you got was because it was an ATA school. Rather, it was because it was that ATA school. I imagine some others would be willing to host a seminar.

[Kusotare]

The word "Ryu" (as in Wado-ryu, Goju-ryu or Shotokan-ryu) is a very interesting one here.

Of course it means school, but that in itself is not the full picture. Importantly (from a martial perspective), more completely it means stream or flow - referring to the natural transmission (or connectivity from teacher to student) of a said "tradition".

The word "kan" (in your case ShindoKAN) of course means house or hall, so again, perhaps comes with a certain degree of "keeping stuff under one roof".

Perhaps not surprising therefore that outsiders and things that may serve to disturb the flow of transmission are met with suspicion?

K.

[cheesefrysamurai]

What can I say? You are correct. It's not a matter of mistrust, more a matter of one considering themselves superior and therefore there is nothing to learn- in short arrogance.

In the case of the ata school I would venture to say that it's in regards to their extremely comercial nature. I'm sure there's plenty of value there but They dont really exist for the same reasons. They are a business model more than a house of learning. My friend went there and said they modified all the kata slightly and copyrighted them so you cannot teach elsewhere. They also made her sign forms stating that she can't teqch within 25 or something miles. You can imagine that it's not really good for the business model to show how much is missing or how much there is to learn from outside their certified world.

A good school in my opinion has nothing to be worried about.

[sensei8]

What can I say? You are correct. It's not a matter of mistrust, more a matter of one considering themselves superior and therefore there is nothing to learn- in short arrogance.

In the case of the ata school I would venture to say that it's in regards to their extremely comercial nature. I'm sure there's plenty of value there but They dont really exist for the same reasons. They are a business model more than a house of learning. My friend went there and said they modified all the kata slightly and copyrighted them so you cannot teach elsewhere. They also made her sign forms stating that she can't teqch within 25 or something miles. You can imagine that it's not really good for the business model to show how much is missing or how much there is to learn from outside their certified world.

A good school in my opinion has nothing to be worried about.

Solid post!!

To the bolded type above...

I agree, even though it can be frustrating.

[hammer]

I have a question for some of the more senior folks here...

Is it reasonable for a school that develops something to have the rights to it? Companies have proprietary information that they guard, can or should an instructor who puts his/her time into developing something have the rights to that information?

Note that I'm mainly playing devil's advocate here...personally I tend to be of the opinion that the MA community needs to be willing to share information. We all have similar goals and that sharing will make each school better for its students. Students will ultimately choose one school or another based on a variety of factors, content being only one of them...and the best way to stand above other schools in the area is to have quality instruction in whatever style at a fair price.

[Wastelander]

I think it is human nature to be drawn to groups of people that are like us, and people we are familiar with. In martial arts, I think most of us could say that we are most comfortable with our classmates--the people we train with all the time. We are less comfortable with dojo-mates that we only work with occasionally. We are another step away from comfort when we have to work with people in our organization, but from another dojo. Once you step outside of the organization, you've removed that security blanket, and it makes people nervous.

This is exactly why I think it is important for instructors to take responsibility for getting their students out of their bubble. My Sensei and I are known for going to other dojo to work out with people from other styles, and inviting people from other styles to come to our dojo. We don't do this to steal students, but to build relationships. We've never had anyone quit training at their old dojo to come train with us (or vice versa) because of this cross-training. What we have done is develop a level of comfort where people from those other schools can come train with us, and we can go train with them, and everyone can benefit.

I'm sorry that ATA school would not allow you to come work with them--they certainly missed out on a great opportunity! We have had some schools refuse us, as well. Hopefully, over time, people will open up more and see the benefits of building relationships with other schools.