Cost and Contract commitment for Karate 2nd degree

[ldretzka]

Im not sure who to ask this but thought you could give an opinion on this. My 10 (almost 11) year old daughter has been taking, and very much enjoying, karate and is at advanced Purple level. After asking about how much for the next level I was told the (bad) news. Over $6,000 (48 months to finance) to get to second degree black belt. The school says it could take about 5 years to get to that level, which is fine. There are no other options to continue, no monthly or yearly options, that's it. So basically I am agreeing to buy karate classes for a 10/11 year old for the next 5 years thinking, or hoping, that she still likes Karate in 5 years when she is 15/16. If she does not want to take classes any more well too bad.....no options. This cost does not include graduation/ testing fees but includes a outfit. This seems so crazy! Please let me know your opinion on this. Its very hard since my daughter and I do like the place and it has been the only thing that she has stuck with for about a year so far. I really do want to continue but feel like I am being taken advantage of. Please I could use an informed persons input on this....to me it seems high and crazy to commit for so long.

[sensei8]

Imho, avoid contract schools!! They only benefit the school in the long and the short of it all...imho!!

I suppose that one can't put a price on a goal or dream or desire or safety or piece of mind. On the figures you've given, you'll be paying $125 per month, which is normal these days. No school should promise, or put a time on how long it should take to earn Nidan; things beyond your and/your daughters control might delay the projected tenure.

Try not to look at the time nor the costs because that will only drive you right out of your mind, if you allow it. The costs, imho, are high, higher than I'd be comfortable with. Will she stay or will she lose interest? Things, to be rightfully concerned with because if you sign a contract, you'll be paying for the contract long after she's hung up her interest with her belt; it happens everyday in the MA, therefore, nothing's guaranteed.

Things cost money, and in today's MA, these costs can be frightening. Uniforms, various training gear, traveling to tournaments, tournament entrance fees, testing cycle fees, and so on and so forth; the list can choke you into submission...if you allow it.

Is this the only MA school where you live? How much have you paid thus far to purple belt? IMHO, if you have to finance for MA classes, you need to reconsider the five "why's" and the one "how" before signing on the dotted line!!

Worry about costs, if you must, but only one testing cycle at a time!!

[Lupin1]

Find a new school. That is not a normal arrangement and not at all kosher. Get out of there. It may mean your daughter starting over at white belt temporarily, but with her prior training she most likely will advance a bit more quickly.

I know it's a hard decision and may be hard on her, but it's definitely not an arrangement I would take part in.

[ldretzka]

A big big thank you to both of you for your input! I am more than willing to commit to taking and paying for as many years of Karate that my daughter would like to take. She has enjoyed it and I love seeing her committing, improving, build self confidence, etc. All the reasons I am sure others do this for. Its a great sport! But a FIVE year contract is sooooo long to buy into for a ten year old. What if she loses interest, we move, etc. Also not offering any other options.....not cool at all.

I have paid about $1200 + $40 for each graduation ceremony (from white to advanced purple). It includes unlimited classes (but we go about 2X a week) and a outfit. So the $6100 (graduations would be extras) includes outfit, unlimited classes (and 10% interest on the fee over a 48 moth period) and be good from advanced Purple to 2nd degree black belt (they say it could take 5 years but the price is the same no matter how long it takes). They also put pressure on you to join now by offering you a discount of $1,500 (the $6100 is with that discount!) but if you wait it goes away and you have to pay all of it (so it would be closer to $7,600).

I would be fine paying per month, buying in for 6 months...heck even a year. I would pay $100-$130 a month even. Buts its the 5 year contract ($600 down upfront) that is so concerning. (fyi, I am in MN/twin cities area. There are other places but my girl hates change and I so don't want to see her lose interest. But I think I need to start looking for another place). Thanks again everyone!! please give me more input......I still have to convince my husband its a scam/ not a good deal. thanks!

[sensei8]

Karate isn't a sport, imho!!

Having said that, tell them what you're willing to pay!! If the school barks and is unmoving, then at the end of the contract, leave. It is the easy!! Sounds to me that that school cares more about their bottom line than about their student body!!

Do exactly what the contract requires when not renewing the contract! Otherwise, you're stuck with no recourse.

Have you looked into other karate schools where you live?? Do they offer contracts too??

Again, contracts are the bane of the MA, imho!! I've never had contracts, and I've been teaching since 1977!!

[Archimoto]

Good advice as usual Sensei8!

Idretzka: there are way too many variables in life to even consider signing a 5 year contract. For instance, her interest might change, you may have to relocate due to work or economics, the list goes on. By the way, there are also a host of variables at the school that can change in 5 years. For instance, can they guarantee they will provide the same level of instruction, can they guarantee they will still be in business in 5 years?

Lastly, i can't blame a school for making money and if you're okay with the cost then forgive me for sharing my opinion. However, your daughter is a purple and if I read correctly she started practicing within the last year or so. She's taking 2 classes per week and you've paid over $1,000 per testing cycle. If all of that is correct (and forgive me if I'm wrong) that's EXPENSIVE!!! To put it in perspective, an average program will cost anywhere from $5 to $15 per class. There are exceptions, heck, some schools don't charge at all! Regardless, by my math you are paying well above average.

All of this is to say that I also recommend not signing the new contract and if you like the school present terms that are more acceptable to you. And most importantly, given the cost you might considering exploring all of your options in the area to make sure that a more cost effective alternative isn't out there.

Please let us know how it goes!! Good luck !!

[chiliphil1]

I am having a hard time believing that there is a school out there that is attempting a swindle like this! My school growing up did have a contract OPTION that you could choose called the black belt club. The club was an OPTIONAL program that cost $2,000 and was financed over 2 years, this program covered unlimited classes and all testing fees until you achieved black belt, it was actually a really good deal. The program stayed in effect no matter what, I fell out of karate for a couple of years and when I went back I didn't have to pay anything because I was in this club. Those who were not in the club simply paid their monthly fees for as long as they wanted to attend class.

IMHO the part where I get lost on this whole deal is that you will have to come out of pocket the price of a nice used car, you will have to commit that your daughter will be doing this into her teens, and trust me most kids don't stick with this through their teens, sure some will but most will not. Where I really got wide eyed above is when you said they charge INTEREST! Are you kidding me? An outrageous price, FORCED contracts, and then they charge interest? I would echo the above statements and tell you that it is time to move on!

[mal103]

Walk away, in fact run away!

There was a club in the UK that got everyone to sign up for a long term contract and then vanished with the lot. The only way i would do contracts is if it was monthly payments.

[Archimoto]

Walk away, in fact run away!

There was a club in the UK that got everyone to sign up for a long term contract and then vanished with the lot. The only way i would do contracts is if it was monthly payments.

I concur !

[ldretzka]

Wow, thanks again to all your input and from people who know so much more about MA (not a sport) than I do!

Some clarity, its been around $1200 from white to advanced purple (plus $40 per graduation). This is not the cost of each belt cycle but for the whole time so far. (they charged us $300 down then so much a month with financing/interest). I signed a contract for instruction from white to red belt, payed $300 and have been making monthly payments (with interest) since last Feb. Adding up class and graduation costs (which they did not tell me about when I signed up) and interest charges the total cost from white to red belt will be about $1900.....that does seem very high.

I would agree with all of you. Their prices are high if not very high. It's very concerning that they only offer one very expensive long contract with no other options. When I questioned them on this they said that they are trying to teach commitment and that is why the contract is so long. That if your child losses interest they would talk with/ work with them to encourage them to stay....or stay with it. When I asked if my child did lose interest....it was obvious that my monthly bill would stay the same.

Thanks again for all the input everyone! I plan to follow your advise and look for a new place which I have started to. Since we did sign a contract to stay/pay till red belt we will stay till then. I just really hope my daughter will continue to stick with MA. This is the longest she has stuck with something like this, she enjoys it, gets exercise and is pretty good at it. But she hates change. Good thing is many places offer a free class to try them out so maybe that will help.