idea for Shodans

[mal103]

Reading a good book at the moment and one of the things suggested is a great idea to keep your Shodans so they dont quit. Too many people have the wrong attitude that black belt is the main target where we all know its the beginning.

A lot need the short term goals like getting a new belt every few months so can feel a bit lost after Shodan as its typically 2 years and a few more kata to Nidan.

If they had a training plan with objectives then this may help to keep a structured learning plan going and fill the gap.

I think the worst thing they can do is put their new black belt in a trophy cabinet and then go on thinking they are a black belt while all of the skills, speed and power slowly reverse themselves...

Anyone else practice this idea?

[Spartacus Maximus]

There is always more to learn. In fact, there is much more to learn from shodan onwards than everything up to shodan. At most a shodan has learned the basic techniques such as kicks and punches and a few kata. It is easy to forget that this is very superficial knowledge.

A shodan student may be able to perform these but there is still much training and practise necessary to be able to understand and freely apply them. Stopping at shodan would be akin to learning the alphabet without ever learning to spell words or put words together in sentences.

From shodan onwards the focus of learning should focus on developing depth of skills in applying basic techniques and understanding the content of kata. In the end only students whose goal is functional skills will continue because the motivation to train comes mostly from within. There is very little an instructor can do to motivate a student to continue past shodan if that student sees shodan as an end.

[sensei8]

My concern is directed towards the CI, as well as the governing body! Do they REALLY support continued training OR do they support the idea of Shodan being the immediate and far gone conclusion??

If students are speaking about Shodan as an end and not part of a continued journey, and the CI/governing body is aware, and teaches nothing in contrary of the supposed notion...then it's quite possible that the problem is lost already!

From day one and until the end of time, the CI/governing body should teach that Shodan is far beyond the end of the continued beginning! Everyday and every rank is the beginning of new discoveries day after day!

For those CI's/governing bodies that teach the falseness of Shodan should be ashamed of themselves!! Students will leave from time to time, this is the reality of any MA school, but to believe your last day in the dojo is Shodan is the fault of the CI/governing body!!

We must not teach negative opinions that drive students away! More importantly, if rank is taught to be the end all of the MA, then students have been short sided from day one! Teaching students that rank is paramount in their MA training hurts students in the long run!

Rank exists, that can't be ignored nor should it be denied, the importence of rank should be minimized from day one, therefore, rank should be put in its proper context,

Train, not for rank...not for Shodan, but for the sake of improving one MA betterment!!

[Lupin1]

I saw an interesting idea a few days ago where a school actually broke Shodan into multiple levels and had colored stripes on the black belt for each one.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the practice (don't know enough about it), but I thought it was a unique concept.

[bushido_man96]

I do like the idea of if not objectives during a black belt cycle, at least providing more challenges for them. Advanced exercises for warm-up instead of basics, perhaps more focus on sparring and self-defense, lots more pair work, would all be good things I think would help keep the black belt mind stimulated.

[Archimoto]

I do like the idea of if not objectives during a black belt cycle, at least providing more challenges for them. Advanced exercises for warm-up instead of basics, perhaps more focus on sparring and self-defense, lots more pair work, would all be good things I think would help keep the black belt mind stimulated.

I agree that a black belt is just one of many more milestones and was going to post something grumpy like "why should a black belt need to be motivated, if they can't motivate themselves then that may be the beginning of the end for them!" And then I saw the post above. It's perfectly reasonable and made me think, perhaps black belts need further motivation too! Good topic!

[Spartacus Maximus]

Just the fact that there is someone who knows more than you should be more than enough motivation for the serious student to keep training beyond shodan. A good student who is not driven by material or status rewards has no need for goals to be spelled out before him. A student is more likely to train long after shodan if he is able to focus on gradual improvements instead of the next "requirement" to get a grade. It is also important to realize that progress beyond shodan is much slower and less obvious because the is less new material. This often gives the impression that no progress is being made. Many students find this difficult and discouraging.

The best thing an instructor can do is explain that it is a normal part of training. Like mountain climbing, it is not straight up all the way to the top. The first parts are almost like stairs or a ladder. Other parts are almost flat but still lead up to the top. Good climbers are good climbers because they enjoy the challenges and the view a long the way instead of constantly seeking new heights. Those who focus on reaching heights will learn very little on their way to each one.

[bushido_man96]

Just the fact that there is someone who knows more than you should be more than enough motivation for the serious student to keep training beyond shodan. A good student who is not driven by material or status rewards has no need for goals to be spelled out before him. A student is more likely to train long after shodan if he is able to focus on gradual improvements instead of the next "requirement" to get a grade. It is also important to realize that progress beyond shodan is much slower and less obvious because the is less new material. This often gives the impression that no progress is being made. Many students find this difficult and discouraging.

Its not necessarily about making the next requirement available. Its about finding ways to motivate and drive the students, new ways, or perhaps old ways rediscovered. I don't want to discount a student just because I assume they should just be motivated themselves. That would be giving up on them in my mind. It would also challenge myself a lot more as well, and in the end, everybody wins.

[devil dog]

I have seen this all too often. I have had students work hard to achieve their Shodan and then a year later loose.

To Sensei8's point I think most instructors or at least myself and the ones I know tell their students that Shodan is just another rank in the long path to mastery. However I believe the general public has the perception that Shodan is the end all to everything.

I think you can say it every day and some students, with their preconceived notions, think that Shodan is the end.

I have had long discussions with these students and have discovered a constant. Most students that quit after Shodan had a goal to achieve that rank and never looked past it. The other is they tend to make time for it during their pursuit for their Shodan and after achieving it they find that other things are more important. Welcome to life!

The goal should be self mastery, a never ending pursuit of betterment. However these individuals do not look at things that way and it really doesn't matter what I say or what the board of instructors implements. That's their goal and once achieved they are mentally done and there is little you can do to change that mind set.

Most students do not have this mind set thankfully. The ones that leave after gaining their Shodan is maybe 2% compared to those that continue.

I personally do not see a problem with it. I would rather have one dedicated student than 100 that couldn't care to be in class or would rather be doing something else. I say God Bless and farewell.

[Lupin1]

I have seen this all too often. I have had students work hard to achieve their Shodan and then a year later loose.

To Sensei8's point I think most instructors or at least myself and the ones I know tell their students that Shodan is just another rank in the long path to mastery. However I believe the general public has the perception that Shodan is the end all to everything.

I think you can say it every day and some students, with their preconceived notions, think that Shodan is the end.

I have had long discussions with these students and have discovered a constant. Most students that quit after Shodan had a goal to achieve that rank and never looked past it. The other is they tend to make time for it during their pursuit for their Shodan and after achieving it they find that other things are more important. Welcome to life!

As a 1st Kyu this resonates with me. Obviously I'm not of the mindset that Shodan is the end (it's hard to hang around you guys for, is it 5 years already, and keep up those notions) but there is still a societal expectation butting in. When someone finds out you do karate, the first question they ask is "are you a black belt"? Up to Shodan being able to say yes is what keeps you going. There's a push to "not quit when you're so close!" and this idea that if you achieve black belt it'll be this huge accomplishment and you can't deny yourself that accomplishment when you've worked so hard. Then you get it and that motivation is gone. No lay person really cares if you're a 2nd degree black belt vs. a first. And you feel like you have your "bucket list" accomplishment, so the stuff you were sacrificing to go to class start to seem more and more important in comparison.

I can totally see this happening to me and I haven't even gotten there yet. I guess for me the thing that will keep me going is that I want instructor certification and in our club that means a good 5-10 year commitment after Shodan. And then of course, after instructor certification I'll want to teach, so that should keep me going then. Basically my vocation is to teach and no matter what I do, my main goal and motivation always seems to be to learn it well enough to pass it on to others.