TKD Forms; a running comparison

[bushido_man96]

Very similar to my Kenpo basic forms. We use this similar footwork with the same & different block strike combos.

Only difference was the linear stepping, we use more in/out steps(C shaped) and cut the corners off the turns. Keeps your feet under you, protects groin and speeds up turns.

I'm familiar with the C-stepping; I've also heard it called "half-moon stepping."

What do you mean when you say you "cut the corners off the turns?" I can't picture what you mean.

[bushido_man96]

Here's the second form, Kicho E Bu (Kicho 2):

Another 20 movements, this time with punches to the high section, and high blocks. It looks a bit more like Heian Shodan than the Kicho 1 did, with the high blocks in there.

[Oshishinobu]

OSU!!! Very interesting sir and thank you or posting these always love to see different styles. Personally in terms of kicho E bu I have to say i prefer the secon version but I am a Shotokan Karateka. The first form seems almost too involved. He throws his body into position almost to the point of off balanced. He seems to be in a cramped location which is unfortunate but i can understand when dealing with what ya got. OSU!!!

[Luther unleashed]

Here's the second form, Kicho E Bu (Kicho 2):

Another 20 movements, this time with punches to the high section, and high blocks. It looks a bit more like Heian Shodan than the Kicho 1 did, with the high blocks in there.

Cool. Kichu ee bu for me looks similar. A bit less rigid then the first video and more hip doing the high blocks.

Kichu ee bu

http://youtu.be/bULgq3Hx13c

Brian if you look at all shotokan forms you will see the TSD forms come from them for sure. Very very similar, but changes, same patterns but not identical techniques.

[126barnes]

Very similar to my Kenpo basic forms. We use this similar footwork with the same & different block strike combos.

Only difference was the linear stepping, we use more in/out steps(C shaped) and cut the corners off the turns. Keeps your feet under you, protects groin and speeds up turns.

I'm familiar with the C-stepping; I've also heard it called "half-moon stepping."

What do you mean when you say you "cut the corners off the turns?" I can't picture what you mean.

We bring our feet back together under us before/during the turn instead of turning by swinging the leg from the previous position.

So on the 1/4 turn on the opening attacker we would come back to a cat stance(without stopping in the cat stance) before moving into a back stance prior to the block & punch. On the 1/2 turn on attacker 2 and the 3/4 turn on attacker 4 our feet would almost touch as we turned.

The cutting the corner comment is just something I say about the 3/4 turn. When in a back stance as you start the turn the back foot basically shoots by your front foot's heel in a straight line (on a 45 degree angle) to it's final position as the front foot after the turn, prior to engaging with the 4th attacker.

[DWx]

Here's the second form, Kicho E Bu (Kicho 2):

Another 20 movements, this time with punches to the high section, and high blocks. It looks a bit more like Heian Shodan than the Kicho 1 did, with the high blocks in there.

Looks fairly similar to the Taekwondo forms Chonji and to Heian Shodan

[bushido_man96]

Here's the second form, Kicho E Bu (Kicho 2):

Another 20 movements, this time with punches to the high section, and high blocks. It looks a bit more like Heian Shodan than the Kicho 1 did, with the high blocks in there.

Cool. Kichu ee bu for me looks similar. A bit less rigid then the first video and more hip doing the high blocks.

Kichu ee bu

http://youtu.be/bULgq3Hx13c

Brian if you look at all shotokan forms you will see the TSD forms come from them for sure. Very very similar, but changes, same patterns but not identical techniques.

I was pretty certain that most of the TSD forms had a Shotokan counterpart, and I'm going to try to pair each one with its counterpart for comparison reasons. Thanks for sharing your video with us! I notice in yours and one of the others, the leg isn't lifted as high on the stepping. Maybe that's an ITSDF thing.

[bushido_man96]

We bring our feet back together under us before/during the turn instead of turning by swinging the leg from the previous position.

So on the 1/4 turn on the opening attacker we would come back to a cat stance(without stopping in the cat stance) before moving into a back stance prior to the block & punch. On the 1/2 turn on attacker 2 and the 3/4 turn on attacker 4 our feet would almost touch as we turned.

The cutting the corner comment is just something I say about the 3/4 turn. When in a back stance as you start the turn the back foot basically shoots by your front foot's heel in a straight line (on a 45 degree angle) to it's final position as the front foot after the turn, prior to engaging with the 4th attacker.

Ok, gotcha. That is how I teach and perform my turns in forms, as well. Its much easier for keeping balance and for controlling foot placement, in my experience. Thanks for the clarification.

[bushido_man96]

Here's the second form, Kicho E Bu (Kicho 2):

Another 20 movements, this time with punches to the high section, and high blocks. It looks a bit more like Heian Shodan than the Kicho 1 did, with the high blocks in there.

Looks fairly similar to the Taekwondo forms Chonji and to Heian Shodan

I thought so, too. One difference I noticed is that in the Shotokan forms, they will at times string two of the stepping techniques together, like a quick combination, where as I don't see any of that in the TSD or TKD forms.

Like in Heian Shodan or Nidan, when they do the three stepping punches or high blocks, the last two get strung together with no stop between the steps, whereas in Kicho 1 and 2, or Dan Gun or my Bo Chung forms, there is a clear stop between each of the step-and-punch techniques. I'm not sure why, but I noticed it.

[Luther unleashed]

I practice a few styles of tang Soo do, so it gets a little tricky to explain but it's like this. My main style is how I perform my forms.

When I perform hyung/poomse I technically am performing Soo Bahk Do. When I learned many things I do o leaned them as Tang Soo Do, but my TSD is different looking in small ways as you pointed out. As time went by I started to realize that there are things that SBD practices and typical TSD does not. As an example I do my movements with more hip, and because of this my foot is closer to the ground. If I lifted my leg I would not be able to easily step turned or more sideways and produce the hip movement. I almost step to the side of you watch. This is called "offensive and defensive hip"! The Internet will say SBD and TSD are 2 different arts, but originally they were one and separated. Basically If something I do looks a little funny to a TSD guy, a SBD guy would appreciate it.

I'll give you 2 quick examples through videos out there. This one is the same form, and there are things the practitioner does that is more of what I do. One thing is some styles or even schools in particular teach the student to be very square and step a bit wider. I step more forward and because I am more narrow my shoulders tend to angle a bit. In this video you see this as well.

http://youtu.be/cCpkYoFgtDY

Here's one more. In TKD and TSD you typically find that a front kick or front snap kick as I learned it, is thrown in an upward motion, and little to no body/hip movement is executed. Essentially the kick is an upward angled kick. In Soo Bahk do specifically and how I learned it, the kick is more of a thrusting kick that pushes straight out. It can be used as a strike or push bit is ideally intended to be a strike. In this video he explains it well. Also, as the hip moves forward and the shoulders move back there is a benefit of more reach. See here: http://youtu.be/8qVL373AaVY

In essence I ranked tang Soo do HOWEVER it was an open minded school and much of what I did was actually Soo Bahk do. Sorry, I find these things interesting and as it becomes messy I just shut up and say tang Soo do haha! This is part of why I choose to call what I teach "integrated tang Soo do", because my background is broad in different martial arts, but even my Tang Soo Do is blended as well.