TKD Forms; a running comparison

[bushido_man96]

Who's ready for 8th Dan Poomsae, Forms, Tul? This guy!

The Iceman asks, and you all shall receive!

8th Dan WTF/Kukki Poomsae, Hansoo:

This form works in an * pattern, if I recall, and appears to have in the neighborhood of 33 moves (probably off, by the way the WTF counts some combinations as single "movements," but close). I like the way this form changes directions. Its really smooth, and especially like the kicking aspects of it. The first section of form has several of the mountain blocks, and some wedging blocks that are open-handed, then followed by moving forward with inward blocks (or are they strikes?). On that first line, when going backwards, the student remains facing forwards. In the second segment, the twin upset punches in the cross leg stance is interesting to me, and then its followed by an interesting and curious inward down blocking motion into the other hand. I also like the change of direction from this line to the next, with the chamber of the side kick, and then the tur to side kick in the new direction. We get a target kick section, too. From then on, its pretty much mirroring what has already been done, which I like to see.

8th Dan ATA Poomsae, Jeong Seung:

This was the only video I could find of this form. 98 moves, with 32 custom moves beginning with technique 48 and concluding with technique 80. The form meaning is, "continually moving forward toward the right ideal of vision." New basics are listed as 360 degree spin palm strike, half figure-8 block, and upward back elbow strike. A new concept is advanced simultaneous hand and kicking combinations. I noticed that in this form, most of the techniques are fairly basic, at least in kicking, with the hand techniques growing in complexity. Most of the kicking is becoming more basic, with some spinning kicks and jump spinning kicks for good measure. I imagine that is by design, as the practitioner is getting older by this rank, and likely out of their physical prime. Something I've noticed more of is combinations of hand techniques with starting with some alternating arms movements, followed by repeating movements with a single arm, with no retraction arm movement, which develops some different coordination and power. The pattern for this forms seems to be like an * with a box around it, and you go through the X in the middle, as well as around the outside of the box. A long form, and the middle section of custom moves again allows the ATA practitioner to put their own personal stamp on the forms and style of the ATA.

Now, with 8th dan forms complete, I'm not sure I'll be able to find much on the 9th dan forms, but we shall see what we can turn up! If we can't scratch anything up, then I plan to continue with dabbling in the other forms, and reporting my thoughts and feelings on them here. I've also found some good PDFs on the black belt ATA forms, with some information on the forms I will go plug back in, and will let you all know when I do edit a post. Thanks for being apart of this examinations of TKD forms so far!

[IcemanSK]

Here are some applications (not THE applications, but some applications) of Han Soo. The gentleman referenced in the video, Ik Pil Kang, is very revered in Kukki-TKD Poomsae circles and literally wrote the book on the current Poomsae standard.

GM LEE Kyu Hyung, the former Kukkiwon president, does this form very well. I can't seem to find a version that really shows off his interpretation of it, however.

[bushido_man96]

I really enjoy the Poomsae applications you are linking here. Is that Ik Pil Kang in the video? He is very fast, and very skilled.

[IcemanSK]

No, it isn't GM KANG. Here is a video of GM Kang.

[bushido_man96]

No, it isn't GM KANG. Here is a video of GM Kang.

Thanks. I liked the sectioned forms work they were doing there. Its an especially favored training tactic I like to use. Break it down into segments, and work on those segments.

[IcemanSK]

This is the book by GM Ik Pil KANG that I referenced. It is the best book on Kukki-TKD Poomsae to date. Very detailed about the current standard.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/899123724X/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d3_i27?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=0QC40V8BTXQ6WQRDV2QF&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2079475242&pf_rd_i=desktop

[bushido_man96]

This is the book by GM Ik Pil KANG that I referenced. It is the best book on Kukki-TKD Poomsae to date. Very detailed about the current standard.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/899123724X/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d3_i27?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=0QC40V8BTXQ6WQRDV2QF&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2079475242&pf_rd_i=desktop

Thank you for the link. Looks like another TKD book I need to get!

A programming note: back on pg 8 of the thread, I edited and added information on ATA 1st dan form Shim Jun and 2nd dan form Jung Yul, as far as new moves and techniques, and the forms' interpretations. They are in bold, for the most part.

[IcemanSK]

I have a fun story about the 9th Dan Kuki-TKD Poomsae IL Yeo.

When I started TKD in the early 80's, Poomsae was not important: sparring was EVERYTHING. So, consequently, Poomsae above Koryo (1st Dan Poomsae) were rarely done. By the time I had trained for 10 years, I'd only seen Tae Bek (3rd Dan Poomsae) in books: not in person. Over the years I'd found books that had the other yudanja Poomsae in them, but was never shown them in person.

Flash forward to 2008. I was at the 2008 Hanmadang (a huge multi-national tournament held in Korea for Poomsae, breaking and demos, held in the US for the one and only time) with my students. I'm in the front row an hour & a hour from the start of the event. An older Korean gentleman (mid to late 70's) walks onto the floor and over to where I'm sitting. He's wearing dobok pants and a "wife-beater" t-shirt. I'm in street clothes. I don't know him and he doesn't know me. He warms up a bit, then he walks over to me. He says, "I want you to watch my form. I'm competing today & I'm nervous. I'm going to do it 10 times. Tell me how I'm doing." As he starts the Poomsae, I realize "Oh my, this IL Yeo!" At this event (then) everyone did their Dan rank Poomsae.

He performed amazingly well with this difficult Poomsae. He walked over an asked very humbly, "how did I do?" "Wow, that was fantastic sir," I said. "I'm not sure if its good enough to win. Nine more times," he said. Each time was better than the previous time. He sweat BUCKETS in the time he did this Poomsae. He toweled himself off & asked for my thoughts (truly wanting my input). We talked for 15 minutes as he got his dobok top out of his bag & put it on. Between the embroidery on his belt & dobok, I discovered I was talking with GM Joong Keun SUH (1992 US Olympic TKD coach http://miamiflmartialarts.com/instructors/overview/)!!! He had no clue he was asking for help from a person who was seeing the form for the first time in person.

I've seen IL Yeo done in person since, but few as good as his was that day.

[bushido_man96]

That is really cool! I think its says something to how humble the guy is, that he would seek someone's opinion on his performance regardless of the rank of the person he is asking. It sounds like he has a heck of a work ethic, too!

I'll see if I can find Ill Yeo footage soon.

[IcemanSK]

Where's the 9th Dan comparison?