TKD Forms; a running comparison

[ninjanurse]

Do you compete in grades of just all black belts together? In ITF, 1st dans compete against other 1sts, 2nds vs other 2nds and so on.

All grades 1st-9th Dan compete in the same age group so you can have a 50 year old 1st Dan competing against a 50 year old 5th Dan.

[bushido_man96]

I am working on Palgwe 2 now, and spent quite a bit of time yesterday (3/9/2015) learning it. While learning it, I kept focusing on my front stance width, and I am definitely getting better with it. However, I am not ending on the same spot with either of the Palgwe forms that I've done so far. But, I am ending off of the start point on a consistent basis, if that makes sense. I'm not sure where the inconsistencies are coming from, but it must be in the length of some of my steps forward in stances. Perhaps I have some shifting issues when I pivot on 270 degree rotations, as well. I don't know, but I will try to get videos up of the next rank of forms I am doing when I get the chance. But, I am thinking that, with the consistency that I miss the starting mark with, perhaps this is just how these forms are? But, I will keep working at it. I did do Taegeuk 1 again, and I was still off the starting mark, but I was much closer to the finish than previously. Thank you, Danielle, for the help with that!

As I was learning and performing Palgwe 2, I've discovered that in no other TKD forms that I've done, have I ever done a high block after a 270 degree turn. That doesn't mean much, but as I was turning to do the high blocks in this form, I was struck by the unfamiliarity of the movement in turning and chambering the high blocks. This could also have something to do with the way I chamber them; in the ATA, we did more of a crossed-arm chamber motion, whereas in the TTA, I've chambered the block with the blocking arm straight down, from the midline of the body. I'm sure a video will help explain that. But that could be part of the issue in why the movements feel weird.

[bushido_man96]

As I mentioned earlier, I've been working on the 8th gup level material now, which has included learning Palgwe 2, and I will be adding Taegeuk 2 soon. I've done some more videos of me doing the forms, with my son Kendall as my videographer... I've also decided to lump the two TTA orange belt forms together, to kind of keep things a bit more consistent as I get higher in the colored belt forms. So...

I'm doing these in my driveway, and I used the crossed cracks in the drive as my starting point for each form.

Dan Gun hyung, TTA version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tExdnvuRZs This form is pretty symmetrical, and I end just about right.

Bo Chung hyung, "extra form," TTA hi orange belt form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHMpvCAkabA This form is pretty symmetrical, as well. I was just a little off, and had a hiccup at the 270 degree turn at the end. I imagine I went off line somewhere in the 270 degree turning at the middle block/front kick section.

Palgwe 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YdvviPXq8A I end off again, back and to the left a bit, but that seems to be a constant the way I end doing the Palgwe forms, to two I've done so far. And then my awesome son asked me if I farted during the form...

Songham 2, ATA orange belt form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIulcqDu5c Its symmetrical, like all the ATA forms are, so I ended pretty close.

I've made a conscious effort to narrow my front stances a bit, and it seems to have helped considerably with where I finish in regards to my starting points.

I also feel like when I do the forms, that I'm using decent power in my techniques, because I'm winded when I finish. But when I watch them, it looks like I lack quite a bit of power.

At any rate, those are some more forms to comment on, and please, give me any comments you can, because I am looking to improve as I go. I'll reviewed Taegeuk 2, and will be learning it next week, I hope.

[bushido_man96]

I spent time on 3/15/2015 learning Taegeuk 2. That form doesn't move much at all, with all the walking stances in it. I did it a few times a piece at a time, and then did 10 run-throughs on it. Maybe next week I'll have a video of it to add, as well. The walking stances are still odd; they feel to narrow, and taking that shorter step feels odd, like I'm choking a move or something.

[ninjanurse]

I am working on Palgwe 2 now, and spent quite a bit of time yesterday (3/9/2015) learning it. While learning it, I kept focusing on my front stance width, and I am definitely getting better with it. However, I am not ending on the same spot with either of the Palgwe forms that I've done so far. But, I am ending off of the start point on a consistent basis, if that makes sense. I'm not sure where the inconsistencies are coming from, but it must be in the length of some of my steps forward in stances. Perhaps I have some shifting issues when I pivot on 270 degree rotations, as well. I don't know, but I will try to get videos up of the next rank of forms I am doing when I get the chance. But, I am thinking that, with the consistency that I miss the starting mark with, perhaps this is just how these forms are? But, I will keep working at it. I did do Taegeuk 1 again, and I was still off the starting mark, but I was much closer to the finish than previously. Thank you, Danielle, for the help with that!

If memory serves me correctly, I believe all Palgwe forms start and end in the same spot-as do Taegeuk's 2-8, however Taeguek Il Jang (1) is the only colored belt Taeguek form that does not-there is absolutely no way it works!

[bushido_man96]

I am working on Palgwe 2 now, and spent quite a bit of time yesterday (3/9/2015) learning it. While learning it, I kept focusing on my front stance width, and I am definitely getting better with it. However, I am not ending on the same spot with either of the Palgwe forms that I've done so far. But, I am ending off of the start point on a consistent basis, if that makes sense. I'm not sure where the inconsistencies are coming from, but it must be in the length of some of my steps forward in stances. Perhaps I have some shifting issues when I pivot on 270 degree rotations, as well. I don't know, but I will try to get videos up of the next rank of forms I am doing when I get the chance. But, I am thinking that, with the consistency that I miss the starting mark with, perhaps this is just how these forms are? But, I will keep working at it. I did do Taegeuk 1 again, and I was still off the starting mark, but I was much closer to the finish than previously. Thank you, Danielle, for the help with that!

If memory serves me correctly, I believe all Palgwe forms start and end in the same spot-as do Taegeuk's 2-8, however Taeguek Il Jang (1) is the only colored belt Taeguek form that does not-there is absolutely no way it works!

Taegeuk 1 I still have issues with, getting it on the line. But I've seen videos where it does appear to end where it starts. As for the Palgwes, I'm having no luck with them.

But, I will say this; starting and ending on the same spot in a form is not, and never really has been, a major point of concern for me. What is, is developing correct technique and sufficient power in the techniques of the forms to make them effective and useful. Footwork and stances are part of that, of course, but when it comes down to self-defense, the starting and ending point of a form is really irrelevant to that. But, since I am trying to learn and improve myself, taking on this task of sharpening up the forms as such adds another dimension to focus on.

[bushido_man96]

I've got Taegeuk 2 learned now, here is a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsL8lkiNtVM

These Taegeuks are still awkward for me, with the short walking stances in them. I feel like I really have to halt myself from going into a front stance. But with this form, I stay pretty consistent with ending on my starting point.

I am also going back to edit the post on the 7th gup material, where I laid out our TTA high orange belt form, Bo Chung.

I promise that I will try to get back on track here, and get the 5th dan material up this week. Stay tuned!

[truejim]

These Taegeuks are still awkward for me, with the short walking stances in them. I feel like I really have to halt myself from going into a front stance.

At the school my son and I attend, we start off with three basic (kibon) forms before we study the Taegeuk forms -- and these basic forms primarily use front stances. I remember when I first started learning the Taegeuk forms, I felt the same way as you do. After a while though, I came to really enjoy the short walking stances. Specifically, I came to enjoy the transitions from the walking stances to long stances, especially in Taegeuk 2. Like, if you want to be sloppy about it, a person can just awkwardly drop into a long stance...but it's so much more fun to try to control your fall into the long stance. It's hard to make it look graceful, but once you do, it feels good.

Like, on the way back, at the end of this form, I notice you do a nice job of kicking and then falling gracefully into the walking stance after the kick, instead of just "dropping" into the walking stance. It's that same type of feeling at the beginning of the form...I've actually come to enjoy it quite a lot.

[bushido_man96]

These Taegeuks are still awkward for me, with the short walking stances in them. I feel like I really have to halt myself from going into a front stance.

At the school my son and I attend, we start off with three basic (kibon) forms before we study the Taegeuk forms -- and these basic forms primarily use front stances. I remember when I first started learning the Taegeuk forms, I felt the same way as you do. After a while though, I came to really enjoy the short walking stances. Specifically, I came to enjoy the transitions from the walking stances to long stances, especially in Taegeuk 2.

One thing I do like about the transition from the walking stance to a technique in a front stance, like from moves 1 to 2 in Taegeuk 2, is the power I can build in the punch driving from walking stance into front stance to punch. That is one place where I see some nice use in the transition. But when I transition from walking stance to walking stance, like in moves 1 and 2 in Taegeuk 1, it doesn't feel as nice, and I feel like I am choking my power potential. But, I also know that in self-defense, one won't always have that kind of room to work with, so moving from short stance to short stance and retaining power is an important concept to develop.

Like, if you want to be sloppy about it, a person can just awkwardly drop into a long stance...but it's so much more fun to try to control your fall into the long stance. It's hard to make it look graceful, but once you do, it feels good.

Reference the bold, I agree completely.

Like, on the way back, at the end of this form, I notice you do a nice job of kicking and then falling gracefully into the walking stance after the kick, instead of just "dropping" into the walking stance. It's that same type of feeling at the beginning of the form...I've actually come to enjoy it quite a lot.

Thank you, I appreciate the compliment. One of the more satisfying things for me in forms practice is learning the body control with the techniques.

[ninjanurse]

I am working on Palgwe 2 now, and spent quite a bit of time yesterday (3/9/2015) learning it. While learning it, I kept focusing on my front stance width, and I am definitely getting better with it. However, I am not ending on the same spot with either of the Palgwe forms that I've done so far. But, I am ending off of the start point on a consistent basis, if that makes sense. I'm not sure where the inconsistencies are coming from, but it must be in the length of some of my steps forward in stances. Perhaps I have some shifting issues when I pivot on 270 degree rotations, as well. I don't know, but I will try to get videos up of the next rank of forms I am doing when I get the chance. But, I am thinking that, with the consistency that I miss the starting mark with, perhaps this is just how these forms are? But, I will keep working at it. I did do Taegeuk 1 again, and I was still off the starting mark, but I was much closer to the finish than previously. Thank you, Danielle, for the help with that!

If memory serves me correctly, I believe all Palgwe forms start and end in the same spot-as do Taegeuk's 2-8, however Taeguek Il Jang (1) is the only colored belt Taeguek form that does not-there is absolutely no way it works!

Taegeuk 1 I still have issues with, getting it on the line. But I've seen videos where it does appear to end where it starts. As for the Palgwes, I'm having no luck with them.

But, I will say this; starting and ending on the same spot in a form is not, and never really has been, a major point of concern for me. What is, is developing correct technique and sufficient power in the techniques of the forms to make them effective and useful. Footwork and stances are part of that, of course, but when it comes down to self-defense, the starting and ending point of a form is really irrelevant to that. But, since I am trying to learn and improve myself, taking on this task of sharpening up the forms as such adds another dimension to focus on.

The only way it works is if you "cheat" on the stances-if you watch some videos you can see them adjusting to make it work. If you pivot correctly and have consistent stances you will not be able to do it. Of note is that Taegeuk Il Jang is the only Taegeuk form NOT used in competition-quite possibly because of this, as part of the scoring is based on beginning and ending in the same place.