Do what I say , not what I do

[Spartacus Maximus]

After many decades of practise, many lifelong martial artist and teachers don't realize how much they have internalized and adapted the techniques.

The changes and variations appear very slowly and gradually. It takes careful self observation and conscious effort to maintain the techniques the way they were meant to be as one ages.

Changes and variations due to aging are not good or bad. What is important is for an instructor to understand what is happening and explain this to students while striving to maintain way he was taught.

As an example from shorin-ryu. The kata series naihanchi is one of the first kata learned and it is performed in a stance called naihanchi dachi. Feet are shoulder width apart with knees bent and toes turned inwards.

My sensei is nearly 70 year old and when he does this kata sometimes his stance has the feet point more forward. Recently he realized that some of his dan grade students (all much much younger than him) were doing it that way too despite the fact that he instructed them to point the toes inwards. After correcting everyone one more time, he told us that few teachers are aware these changes are happening and many students will try to imitate their teacher without understanding that what they see might be a habit brought on by age

[bushido_man96]

I agree with you here. I do think its something that happens to us gradually, so we don't notice it so much, until its pointed out to us. Its good to be conscious of what we do, and why, and to relate that to those we teach.

[Spartacus Maximus]

It is easy for students to forget that despite decades of practise and a very high level of mastery and skill, their sensei is is still but a human being subject to age and all it's effects just like anyone else. Even students who have been training with the same instructor for years sometimes see only an expert who is technical perfection and power incarnate instead of just a person who has been exceptionally tenacious in training. My sensei says this is a common trait of foreign students who come to Okinawa and elsewhere in Asia seeking tuition from eminent masters of martial arts. These masters are also very few to actually explain that their age might account for slight variations which the student end up copying faithfully.

[sensei8]

God forbid should any Sensei get older!! Put them out to pasture!! Change is inevitable; age isn't an exception!!

I creek when I didn't before! I snap, crack, and pop when I didn't before!!

Forgive me for not being the young man that I use to be! I may not move as eloquent as I use to, but, my techniques are solid, and my mind's sharp as ever, and my knowledge is undeniable!

Yeah, there's snow on the roof but the fire still rages on within!!

[hammer]

Being of a certain age myself I don't mind it when an instructor makes adaptations for a technique due to age, flexibility, etc.

For some of us, unfortunately our Jodan looks more like Chudan...but I for one am working on it...

All I ask is that the adaptations be pointed out so that those who have the physical skills to perform a technique as intended know what to do.

[sensei8]

After all, aren't adaptations just the latter part of Shu Ha Ri??

[Canadian77]

I think another factor to be considered is senior students. My sensei is still young enough to demonstrate everything personally, so it isn't an issue for him. However, he even now has senior students demonstrate techniques on a regular basis (as well as demonstrating himself regularly). It gives him an opportunity to point out the intricacies of techniques, sometimes hard to do when he is doing it himself. He can also make small corrections to the senior student, thus demonstrating a common error. And so for that senior student it is certainly helpful too for many reasons. But I would think that this would also help solve this issue in this thread somewhat as well. For an older sensei who maybe couldn't move as well in certain advanced techniques, the other students would still be able to see the technique in action as well as get the wisdom of the sensei's teachings. Thoughts?

[bushido_man96]

I think another factor to be considered is senior students. My sensei is still young enough to demonstrate everything personally, so it isn't an issue for him. However, he even now has senior students demonstrate techniques on a regular basis (as well as demonstrating himself regularly). It gives him an opportunity to point out the intricacies of techniques, sometimes hard to do when he is doing it himself. He can also make small corrections to the senior student, thus demonstrating a common error. And so for that senior student it is certainly helpful too for many reasons. But I would think that this would also help solve this issue in this thread somewhat as well. For an older sensei who maybe couldn't move as well in certain advanced techniques, the other students would still be able to see the technique in action as well as get the wisdom of the sensei's teachings. Thoughts?

Very good idea, very good points. Its important as we get older and work towards passing on what we know, that we find ways to do that to maintain the integrity of what we have.

[devil dog]

Harkon72,

IMHO this is very short sighted and I believe you are missing out. My Sensei before he retired this year was still teaching at the ripe old age of 84. He couldn't kick you in the face anymore but could at a younger age. The age however is not the point. The point is if you only learn from instructors that can jump over your head your going to be learning from young low to medium ranked individuals. Of course their are exceptions to this but most individuals, myself included, slow down as we age. This does not mean our minds went blank. And as far as being counsel, I strongly disagree.

My Sensei could not only help you with your technique but also instruct. Yes he may not move like he did at the age of 20, 30 or 40 but with age comes wisdom. You can no longer perform certain techniques but who cares? If you can, and your aged Sensei can show you how to make it better, aren't you better off.

As far as I'm concerned age does not mean that you need to hang up the belt. I can guarantee that if you walked out on me I would let you and feel pity for the opportunity you lost out on because of a preconceived notion that age some how makes you less of a teacher.

Personally I have found as I age I have become a better fighter and more knowledgeable fighter than when I was younger. You begin to find out that all the high flying, super athletic stuff is great for kids but absolutely not needed to defend yourself and in fact in most cases it's detrimental.

I hope you re-evaluate your position. You are reducing yourself to a limited knowledge pool if you take out those that are up in age, a little overweight or have a disability that keeps them from doing the things that you feel make the perfect instructor. Knowledge doesn't come from athletic skill. It comes from time which means... older in age.

And I hope for your sake you never age. You may say "I'll be going strong when I'm that age" or "I would be embarrassed if I looked like that" but I have news for you, life tends to sneak up on you when you least expect it and things that may be out of your control can and will happen. If that means someone should put you on a shelf and you no longer have worth, then I feel sorry for you when you get up in years.

My guess is when you do get up in years you'll discover what most of us have. Age is not a limitation and it doesn't make you less of an instructor. It makes you better because you have years of experience and knowledge that your students wont have for years to come. How do they gain it? By learning from us old experienced guys. Good luck!

[sensei8]

Our Soke was in his early 90's, and our Dai-Soke was in his late 70's when they both passed away; both still moved eloquently and with great speed and power!! Soke died of natural causes and Dai-Soke died after suffering two strokes: Soke retired one year before his death, yet, watching him on the floor, his movements weren't labored. On the other hand, Dai-Soke, wasn't able to return to the floor after his first stroke...his second stroke killed him!!